I am posting in this Forum as it gets the most traffic. Many of us that just went on ROAR to Southern Africa, are interested in going back again in 2008. To help in planning, just want to see how large a group might be interested and what are interests are. Feel free to explain more in a response.

thanks,

Marc, I voted but the choices I would have marked weren't necessarily there. I chose September but would have chosen a "either one is OK" option. Also, I'm interested in Cape Town but not necessarily the winelands.

Yes, I should have done an "either one" for Sep and October. As for winelands, I just put that in parenthesis so someone wouldn't say that I forgot it. Me, I probably won't go back to Cape Town area again; at least not for a long time.

Thanks for posting the poll!

I voted for luxury, but ultra-luxury is OK with me too.

I voted too. Thanks Marc!

I voted, too! Could have gone with either/or on a couple of them, picked one. We'll get a GOOD general feel, this way, thanks Marc.'

I voted for September, but either would be equally OK. Work commitments are based on the week of the month for me (and, who knows if I'll even be doing the same thing in over 2 years?). I checked lots of the areas of interest but am happy to do other than South Africa/game viewing on our own (such as Victoria Falls).

Dena

Carol and I would actually consider going before 2008 if that opportunity presented itself. 9/2007 would be difficult as we have a cruise booked for that time. Early to mid-April 07 would be an option for us.

Marc, if you are not interesteed then your votes will skew the results since you must answer all the questions to vote.

Thanks for doing this poll, Marc. We're flexible as to month, also. - Michele

djw521, Ngaire offers Africa itineraries on her website on a continuing basis, so that is possible for you for 2007. Just click on Brown & Keene at the top of the page. We had so much fun organizing our own custom itinerary for ROAR I that we want to get a similar group thing going in 2008.

I think it only makes sense to look at responses of people who are interested (strongly or possibly) in order to look at the direction the planning should take. Marc - can you take out the "not interested" response?

You cannot edit a poll. People not interested should not vote and should ignore the question. <img border="0" alt="[c]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Kathy - good to see your statistics/accounting/math background & expertise! :)

Leslie, I had tried to edit before I posted to indicate that if you were not interested, to not vote on remaining items. I could have solved this problem if I had just said anyone can look at results without voting. Some, although not interested, have decided to vote. We are going to have to refine more anyways. Right now, the group size looks humongous. No matter what, we are going to have to have an option for "no cape town" for those of us who went before that don't want to return while newbies will probably want as much time there as we had last time.

So 15 strongly interested at this point, does each vote usually represent two people I wonder? That is 30 people already!!!

We will fine tune this poll at a later date for ONLY those interested and then with more detail. This is a great starting place.

If it gets too big we really need to split it up into two separate groups. I dont think any larger would work than we had for ROAR.

Already becoming clear - almost everyone wants Hermanus and two camps, plus Cape Town is popular too. So primary outline below.

So CPT (optional first) Hermanus (optional second) Actual safari for everyone: Madikwe? (non Malaria - first camp) Sabi Sands, Timbavati or similiar area in Kruger (second camp).

Post optionals - Victoria Falls/Botswana/Nambia/Mozambique or whatever is the most popular). REMINDER I will not escort Victoria Falls again.

Those that want to do a pre safari option can join in either Cape Town or Hermanus or just for the camp portion, or do their post safari trip at the end.

IF we make things optional in a logical order it should work for everyone.

Also looks like we go for a luxury safari, but not the Singitas or Lions Sands type properties.

TUSK with 4 nights in Cape Town (Radisson) and 2 nights Kings Camp (Seasons in Africa) 3 nights Leopard HIlls was $6333 per person. (extra charter flight for two camps)

ROAR with 4 nights at Cape Grace, 2 nights Rovos Rail, 4 nights Singita was $8547 and actually that was an incredible deal. We got 2005 prices and a great exchange rate locked in. Could not do that now for that price.

They wont do that again, the price will be quoted in ZAR and you can pay it off when you wish if you feel the exchange rate is favorable.

My votes counts for two people.

My vote also 2 people.

My vote is for 2 also.

Mine is for 2, also.

Mine is only for 1 as Marc already voted

Arlene, LOL!

The Radisson in Cape Town looks like a nice hotel! I really thought Cape Grace was kind of overpriced; were we the only people who had to live out of our suitcases because there weren't any drawers to put stuff away in? And we had one of those high-priced rooms.

Pam, we had so much storage. We had that large walk in closet with drawers and shelves; just like on Regent ships.

If we were to go back to Cape Town, I, too, would probably seek out cheaper accomodations. However, at least they didn't try to rip you off on drinks and food.

Only conclusions can draw from poll so far are:

1. Two camps are better than one.
2. We can step down luxury a bit.
3. A bunch of people want to go to Cape Town and a bunch of people don't want to go to Cape Town.
4. A group of people, of undetermined size, may want a complete package including Vic Falls.

and, I need to write a better poll next time. :(

I liked the Cape Grace (free internet was a major plus), but I never unpacked either. I think the only place I did unpack was at Singita.

I'd go back to Cape Town to eat at Bukhara again!

Doug said to me.."Can you believe it? Marc is already taking polls for ROAR 2 in 2008 and some folks have already answered? I can't believe it. Can you believe folks have responded? Who would respond to a poll like this?" :rolleyes: I sheepishly said.."I did." <img border="0" alt="[c]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> So..

Our vote is for 2. ;) We are flexible regarding timing. We prefer two camps..luxury or ultra lux...no Capetown or Vic falls. Been there ... done that..can't get bored with animal parks though. Would like to see two parks with as much time as we had at Singita. Ngaire told me to trust her...that she could put together a great trip of a couple of good parks. Doug and I put ourselves in her hands. By the way, we were very pleased coming out of Joburg and staying at the Westcliff. Nice service and room..convenient to airport and Joburg had nice touring for a day or two. Good food too...

Marc, that's very interesting. We had two very small, shallow closets; one had shelves and one had a hanging rod. We put some stuff on the shelves and put one suitcase on the suitcase holder thingy.

Radisson has the free internet for guests, too. We can go with/without Cape Town; Baia would be nice again.

Thinking about the numbers here.

We either (a) split into two groups.

Group One: CPT (4)- Hermanus (2) - Game Parks (6) - 12 nights - probably first timers and some Roar who may join just in Hermanus or do Cape Town again. We escort the 12 nights.

Group Two: Hermanus (2) game parks (6) -8 nights we escort the 8 nights. Probably roarers who will so something else pre or post.

(b) have to find properties that hold enough - very few of these that is why we went with Singita.

I also thought about Royal Malewane, owned by the same people as Birkenhead House. That is a lovely property too. Might be able to get a combination rate. Maximum 20 people

Leopard Hills - maximum 18 people.

Birkenhead - maximum 22 people.

The "thing" about Singita is that it holds so many between the two camps. Right now 36

Madikwe Hills and Mateya we can get 24 at Madikwe Hills and 10 at Mateya. Total 34

If we do a group of ROARS size again it will almost have to be Madikwe and Singita. No other choice. At least Madiwke is such a value that it will help in the overall cost. We could do 2 nights Singita and 3 nights Madikwe would make a difference of about $1200 a person just cutting out one night at Singita.

In Cape Town we can do the Radisson which really is quite nice. There is another hotel which is even less and also nice(I think it is now called the Southern Sun - just changed its name) I visited during ROAR. Both these have a free shuttle to the waterfront, no more than 4 minutes. Cut the costs here, you are hardly in your hotel in Cape Town anyway. As much as I like the ambiance of Cape Grace and the staff, I also think it is overpriced, but such a great location. The hotel right in the waterfront K&D does not like much but I saw the rooms they were okay. Not sure of the cost here but that sure has the location also. Being near that waterfront is really nice.

These are the realities of a bigger group.

Poor Ngaire. You are barely home from ROAR, and we are already hitting you with the repeat trip. But you knew we would, I guess, since you went and immediately fell in love with it.

We are flexible, timewise, and loved, LOVED Singita. Would go back in a heartbeat (Andrea, we'll campaign to get Nick again; he's so cute!). Don't need the plunge pool, but it looks like most places have them "just because". And the game viewing at Singita is so superb that we really got spoiled to "which experience would you like this time?".

I LOVE South AFrica Pam, would go back again and again and again. So I dont mind at all. In order to get the camps it is really fine to start thinking this early. Already this thread has been helpful in thinking it through. I will not escort any post or pre if I am already down there 20 days with two groups.

Ngaire, how about two camps for four nights each? Is that too much? I still want to see a kill; need to get as many opportunuties as possible.

For most people that would be too much. You can always stay over Marc you dont have to leave when everyone else does. Remember I have only seen ONE kill and I have been a lot. Wild dog is where it is at for me. We all have our "wish list" You could always add a 2 night option for you and Arlene at a third camp. Every game drive you just "never know"

Dont beat yourself over your poll those take a lot of thinking out!!! I think you did well.

Well, Greg and I are definitely interested. And being 2 years away, gives us plenty of time to research, ask you guys questions, save up & plan for it. Perfect!

Only question is, is there enough room for us?!? ;)

Olivia just emailed me really the best solution for the game park issue.

Take all of Leopard Hills, 16 people, then all of Boulders 18 people. We may be able to have a group breakfast together just depends on whether the two camps will co-operate. Then those that want Singita have Singita and those that want to save a little can do so at Leopard Hills.

Then we take all of Madikwe Hills (24 people) and then all of Mateya (10 people). The Mateya people need to come from the Singita group, as the Leopard HIlls people will get one night free (if they do that in 2008) so it makes more sense for them to go to Madikwe Hills.

We would have to limit the safari to 34 people. I think once I announce it first come first served with deposit in hand. Then we go to a waitlist.

That makes a LOT of sense!!!!

Only issue now is Birkenhead House.

How about this. Using fake dates just to clarify what I mean.

Group one: Cape Town group at Birkenhead first (2 nights) Sept 9, 10 then Cape Town (4 nights) 11, 12, 13, 14. Then Game Parks

Group two: Birkenhead for the NON Cape Town people ( 2 nights) Sept 13, 14. Then game parks.

We meet at CPT on our flight to Johannesburg.

We may not take the whole house each time but that wont matter. A few other people around wont be a problem.

I hope the Sabi Sands camps would cooperate (they are next door neighbors), after all they know us at Singita is not being "difficult" and we filled two camps!

My goal on the "committee" was to consider less than "ultra-luxury". I LOVED Singita, and if doing it for my first trip, would do it again, no questions asked IF I wanted the ultimate experience.

Thank you Ngaire, I think we can definitey fill Madikwe and Mateya. Probably should leave it at that for this group, at 34

Ngaire,

As I understand it, Leopard Hills is equivalent to Bolders but in the treetops and no plunge pools and has same price points. I understand that the desirability is that is feels more remote, but the negative is that the animals are not as used to the jeeps so don't approach as much. Is this correct?

Can you describe the other two properties? Thanks.

Andi, Leopard Hills and Singita adjacent properties in Sabi Sands. We passed their jeeps all the time on ROAR. If you prefer Singita, Ngaire is going to offer that. When Ngaire talked about animals not used to jeeps, I think she was talking about different properties within the company. Go to Leopard Hills website.

Andi, you might be thinking about Singita Sweni Lodge - it's the one built on stilts.

Looks like Olivia has come up with a winning plan!

I heard they were both lovely. Olivia, I mean what are the other properties as I haven't done any research? Also, Why are we going into Capetown and not into Joburg? Wouldn't this be cheaper and easier?

Andi - ballpark pricing per person per day.

Singita - $1200
Leopard Hills $800- $900

Leopard Hills has plunge pools, nice rooms (not as big as Singita) great staff. Same quality game drives. Right next door to Singita. It is a lovely property. All inclusive, free internet. I use it all the time for clients. Susan from my office is there right now.

You are thinking of Singita Lebombo and Sweni that are in the Lebombo mountains and a new concession. This is where the animals are a little more afraid of the land rovers. Gorgeous area, game drives not as good.

By the way, Ken and I will go where ever there turns out to be room. We will be the last assigned. Both at Sabi Sands, either Singita or Leopard Hills and at Madikwe Hills or Mateya.

Ken and I will probably do 2 nights Hermanus 2 nights Cape Town with first group then go back to Hermanus and do 2 nights Hermanus with second group. Once again depends on availability will make this choice once every thing is clear.

Thanks, Ngaire..I was confused. I see I was confused on a few things..Singita properties and the fact that Birkenhead house was in Hermanus.