They are expecting people to converge in Minneapolis this coming Monday for that immigration march. They say Chicago is supposed to be the biggest. I know that their Metra train keeps making announcements for people to get their tickets early as they are expecting HUGE lines for tickets. People I know in other cities are so not looking forward to this. Is this going to affect anyone on this board, i.e. difficulty getting to work, etc?

Trish

Trish,

They are expecting well over a million people to march down Wilshire Blvd in LA on Monday. I have clients closing their businesses to avoid the traffic and inconvenience.

The hotel I work for is anticipating short-staffing. Senior staff will be standing by to cover wherever needed.

I'm suprised that there is no march planned for Miami considering our immigration problems with the Cuban and Hatian communities. We are thrilled that it will be quiet here.......

Doris

Many area restaurants are closing on Monday - their signs say "in support of our Latino workers". I have a feeling they couldn't operate without them.
In our part of Florida many jobs are staffed by immigrants - I'd guess that not a blade of grass would be cut, a table bussed, or even many meals cooked without their help. Beyond that, staffing at many nursing homes, is decidedly immigrant based. No matter how you feel about this issue, they make an important contribution to our economy.

Very well said, Margo! Without getting on my political soapbox, I couldn't agree with you more!

I work in the immigration field, and have spent the whole day on the phone with reporters, trying to answer their questions about expected turnout on Monday. And the answer is, I truly don't know. The community is evenly split on the wisdom of this event, and I don't know that we'll see the kind of turnout some are expecting. Even the organizers don't know.

For many immigrant workers, a day off from work equates to a loss in much-needed pay. Most can ill afford to loose wages and, therefore, will show up for work, even if they feel their presence is really needed at the march in their city. You also have to wonder if organizers were really able to get out the message and intent to the masses. It remains to be seen. All industries have to be prepared if this event does evolve and grow in participation.

Well, I am getting on my soapbox! This nation was formed by immigrants. We all have stories of relatives who came here and changed the history of this nation. My great grandparents came and struggled to make it here with hard labor, leaving family behind in Eastern Europe during very difficult times, without knowing whether or not they'd see family again. They changed this nation by working hard for all that they have without expecting anything but the opportunity to work hard. They spent their nights learning and teaching their children. They taught that education was the ticket to riches. I think only the expectations have changed.

Margo says

"Many area restaurants are closing on Monday - their signs say "in support of our Latino workers". I have a feeling they couldn't operate without them.
In our part of Florida many jobs are staffed by immigrants - I'd guess that not a blade of grass would be cut, a table bussed, or even many meals cooked without their help. Beyond that, staffing at many nursing homes, is decidedly immigrant based. No matter how you feel about this issue, they make an important contribution to our economy."

Yes, M, exactly the same out west. Personally, I support the whole thing.

As an immigrant myself I'm all for people that want to legally immigrate to this great country and assimilate. I'm not for singing the Star-spangled Banner in Spanish or any such nonsense. I also don't appreciate people that are guests in this country making demands for " citizen rights". Getting off my soapbox now :)

The problem is, for most there is no way to legally immigrate. People talk about how they should get in line, but there's no line for them to get into. Legal immigration is very limited, and most of the people who are doing the essential work don't have a legal means to immigrate. These are people who work hard, and only want to make a better life for their families.

I just came from our favorite local place where we eat dinner on a regular basis so they know us. None of the employees scheduled to work on Monday have told their manager that they want the day off. They're just not coming in. Period. The manager is keeping the restaurant open and several of the managers and waiters are going to cook.

The principle is that regardless of your opinions, it is not right to do that to your employer who does feed your family in exchange for your efforts. What about doing the ethical thing and at least having some kind of courtesy as people for the people you work with day after day? The manager asked us to come in on Monday to support their efforts to keep the business running. I told her I'd volunteer my efforts - I'm donning my Cordon Bleu Apron and Hat and doing something.

if even half the immigrants walk out on Monday, it will hurt our economy for the day.

I'm a legal immigrant from a one of the countries with illegal immigrant issues (Guatemala).

As a Latina, I feel for the coummunity but the issue here is ILLEGAL immigration and the strain it places on the U.S. economy (mainly state and local). Yes this country was built on immigrants, but they were legal. Many latinos who have followed the laws and procedures of this country to live in this country do not take kindly to the fact that people take advantage of the situation and infiltrate into the U.S. and then make deamands when they do not have the legal blessing of this country to be here.

May I also note that our housekeeper (who is from Mexico) and our nanny (who is from HOnduras) are legal immigrants and they feel similarly. In fact sometimes those of us who make it up here legally sometimes do so at great personal sacrifice. Why should others get the carte blanche AND on top of it not pay taxes (other than the taxes for the goods they buy) yet demand the services those very same taxes fund?

I'm all for the illegal immigrant reform programs. This is the U.S. and they need to pass the laws and put in place programs that makes sense for the citizens and legal immigrants of this great country.

Yes, perhaps there is a price to pay: maybe the price of services are artificially lower than what they really are because of the use of illegal immigrants...similar to the "Wal Mart" effect on imported goods from the east (stuff is artifically lower than what it should be) or the price of gas. I think the time is coming when in America gas is no longer cheap, knick knacs from China aren't really all that cheaper...etc. etc.

I have the highest respect and admiration for those who make their way to the US, despite some horrendous conditions to get and stay here, and work to support family both here and abroad. They are productive and very needed members of our nation's community. Let's be real and honest - So many of these jobs that illegal immigrants hold are jobs that pretty much no one that has been born in the US would ever want to even consider doing for an hour, much less a day, weeks, months or years. Illegal immigrants grab these jobs to put food on the table, a roof over their heads and clothes on their backs. The necessities, that so many of us take for granted, vital to survival. The little they earn and have is far better than where they came from and what they had. If faced with the same situation, would we all not try to make our way, legal or illegal, to make our lives worthy and better? Who would want to go through life with no glimpse of the possibility of a brighter future?

If these decent and hard working people hold a job,why not make them citizens and give them what they are entitiled to? I'm not for giving something for nothing to anyone in this country. We all need to make contributions in many different respects. Our country needs to realize that illegal immigration is a fact that will not be erradicated anytime soon. I think our country's time is better spent on working with illegal immigrants rather than punishing them for trying to survive.

There is a line. The problem is people don't want to get into that line (they want to get in here tomorrow). In fact, the U.S. embassy sponsors a green card lottery and some people have been able to come up that way. People do have the legal means to get here, they may not have the $$ requirements...but get this: some of them manage to scrape up the money to pay the coyotes (which sometimes is in excess of Five thousand dollars)!!!

Yes some of them work hard I acknowledge that. These are the folks who would benefit from the programs they want to put in place. They should be all for it.

Denise,

My post may not be clear enough, but this is my point...put in place the programs that makes them legal immigrants.

The problem is a few of them don't want to...that's what they are arguing about. They want to continue with the status quo.

And we know the status quo isn't working.

I very much agree with you. I think there is a lot of misinformation and lack of communication. Word is not getting out that there is a way to enter the system. Very clearly, we need to educate those who fear any and all legal channels, because they equate that with being sent back to where they came from.

Our country expends so much in the way of funds and "talk" to resolve this on-going issue. Surely there's a more coherent way. We're spinning our wheels.

As to the coyotes...Disgusting! They should be hung for taking advantage of people who essentially have nothing and are treated like human cargo! Again, people resort to this because this is the only way they know. If these desperate people need a way to get here, they must be educated on that way.

I had a whole long post and hit send and it disappeared. Back on my soap box. Ana Luisa, you said it perfectly - ILLEGAL.

It is not only that many of these people have not followed the laws. They still refuse to follow the law. We have real problems with gangs, which originated south of the border. Guns, drug trafficking, graffiti cost our infrastructure plenty. We pay for the incarceration, deportment and the justice system that has to deal with this.

We were rear ended recently. No insurance, no license, - we're out the $1200 to fix the car. If we put it through our insurance, our rates go up.

We pay for the education, healthcare, often the housing for many of these immigrants, working under the table, since they have no reportable income and they pay no taxes. Those that do frequently cheat. I just had an employer audited by the IRS. As a part of that audit, his employee turned in a tax return for me to look at. He claims he supports 5 nieces and nephews in Mexico. He did tell my client that he doesn't support them - they don't exist. He is here legally and yet he pays no tax either.

Not all that long ago we had an amnesty program that granted status for those here illegally. Obviously, that did not work. Our infrastructure is hurting greatly. We need more than immigration reform. But this is a place to start.

I'm sorry but I don't think US citizenship is an "entitlement". It is a privilege. And for that privilege people should be willing at the very least to learn the language and assimilate to the culture, not expect it to be the other way around!And the reason that illegal immigration is a "fact" is because the Federal and local governments have turned a blind eye to enforcing the laws in the books.

We need controlled immigration not a free for all that anybody that wants to get in can get in, which is tantamount to open borders. Or if our de facto policy is going to be "open borders" then lets disband the INS, fire all the border patrol and save that money. We'll need it to provide services to the unending stream of illegal immigrants that are coming through our borders every day.

The premise that the illegal immigrants do jobs that no american wants to do is a fallacy. This argument is offered with no economic context whatsoever. Wages are artificially depressed by having an unending stream of people coming in willing to do jobs at "below market" rates. But make no mistake about it. We are paying dearly for it in other ways: impact on public school system, impact to emergency rooms and hospitals , etc. , etc.
And then there are the "intangibles": "day laborers" ( that's the way they refer to them in the east coast) loitering around the shopping malls , train stations , libraries, etc. I live in a small town in NJ, in the middle of nowhere, and I see it all the time. I used to take my daughter to the library with me at night and let her play in the computer in the "kids section". Well, I can't do that anymore because the computers are now consistently occupied by adult men which are part of these day laborers group. When I brought this to the attention of the Librarian, she shrugged her shoulders.

Yes, it is a privilege to be a US citizen. The more I watch the news and read the papers and see people going without, while we have so much, enforces that.

I'm not advocating a free-for-all. What I want is for people who are working and adding to our nation's economy, to be recognized as productive individuals who have the opportunity to become legal residents of the US. Educate these individuals on the proper way to go about obtaining citizenship. They then need to and should be required to immediately go about entering into that process. It is and should continue to be a requirement to maintain their employement. Unfortunately, not all employers go by those rules. Anyone just milling about and not holding down a job, is a whole other problem that needs to be handled differently. Those individuals are the drain on our economy.

Clearly there are many sides and opinions on this very serious issue that, in one way, or another, impact all of us.

In order for us to do that, the laws would need to be changed. In order to do that, you must be returned to your country of origin and you cannot enter for I believe 6 months. A guest worker program might be the answer, but, again it's been such a free for all, someone won't like to play by the rules. The rules need to be enforced and they need to be abided by - for everyone. The problem will be the few who won't or can't abide by the rules because they are affected.

I also think that we need tax reform, disallowing dependent deductions for those who are not residents of the US. And we need to stop giving away health and education to those not willing to pay the price of abiding by the rules of our government. The price of our continued freedom is that we cannot continue to afford this. We all pay for it - and disproportionately.

Strongly agree, Kathy.

All valid viewpoints. The "system," is in dire need of reform.

My good friend and my real estate partner for years came here from Mexico...legally at the age of 28. We went to lunch last week and talked about all this. She is quite upset and feels that allowing all the immigrants here illegally is a slap in her face and for those that did it the legal way. Her real pet peeve is those that come here and make little or no attempt to learn English when they offer free ESL (English as a Second Language) classes at our Fullerton Adult Ed college. In her opinion the people demonstrating and marching should be exerting all this energy and attention to making changes in Mexico where the real problem lies. She is very vocal about this. It is interesting to hear from her perspective.

Marcie,

Talking from my own experience most LEGAL immigrants in this country feel the same way as your friend, We came here, learned the language, assimilated and love this country as our own. When people ask me ( because I have a Spanish accent) "Where are you from?" I always answer "I'm an American". But a lot of these new "immigrants" don't want to assimilate, do not want to embrace the culture or the language. I used to teach ESL but had to stop doing it because most people there were more interested in "networking" to find out were to get freebies(including illegal ID's) or to bash the USA. I got fed up with it and didn't volunteer anymore.

I'm not saying everyone is like that, of course not. But unfortunately a big % are.

Kathy has it correct. There need to be financial penalties and costs for being here illegally. These people are here illegally therefore are criminals. We , not matter how compasionate one thinks they need to be, can not afford to pay for their UNEARNED medical and education costs.

I understand my view may not be popular but the system needs to be changed or our lives will be changed for the worse forever.

all these well thought out posts point out what a big problem this is.

It was interesting to hear all of your thoughts on immigration into our culture. I personally think that there is a difference between the immigrants of the last century compared to this century. The people are coming here for the same reasons, whether it be money or to escape a harsh government or persecution.

But I think some of the immigrants that are coming in now, when they get here, they find a system that gives them all kinds of stuff, so they decide it's easier to live in that system. I respect someone that is willing to work hard and provide for their family if they are willing to do it legally.
I would guess that most Central American share croppers would love to get a job like standing inside an air conditioned McDonalds, where the only real physical exertion is done with a spatula, and the worst boss in the world is 10 times better than the land barron he's used to, and he can feel like a millionaire for $7.10 an hour.
My relatives obviously immigrated here somewhere along the way, but they learned English, got jobs, followed the laws, etc... huge difference from some of the modern day immigrants.

Ok, I'll be quiet now, thanks for letting me rant.

Trish

Part of the issue is that as citizens, we need to express our viewpoint - whether or not we agree with one another - to our elected officials and in person and in writing or both. When we stay silent our viewpoint is not heard and the officials often vote with those who vocalize. I was amazed the first time I went to Washington DC and to Sacramento with a business group to meet with elected officials. When I was last in Sacramento, the illegal aliens were lobbying with the elected officials. They were sponsored by the AFL-CIO. It's very easy to email Senators and Congress and be heard.

quote: "There is a line. The problem is people don't want to get into that line (they want to get in here tomorrow). In fact, the U.S. embassy sponsors a green card lottery and some people have been able to come up that way. People do have the legal means to get here, they may not have the $$ requirements...but get this: some of them manage to scrape up the money to pay the coyotes (which sometimes is in excess of Five thousand dollars)!!!"
_____________

Ah, but that's where the myth is. That lottery is open only to nationals of certain countries, mostly European. Mexicans and other Latin Americans are not eligible. The only other way to "pay" your way into legal status is to invest $1 million in an enterprise that will create 10 jobs. Obviously, that's not an option. Five, or even ten, thousand to a cayote is the only choice.

Hi, Wish I were cruisin....

The lottery is open to Guatemalans, in fact it is heavily advertised in the local newspaper (Prensa Libre). In fact for 2007 the only countries excluded from the lottery are Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador (I'm missing one) because they have exceeded their quota of 50,000 immigrants in the last 5 years. So everywhere else, the lottery is alive and kicking (and certainly is so in Guatemala).

Back in January or February, the New Yorker http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060123fa_fact

had a story about a Peruvian Engineer who won the lottery and is up in New Jersey somewhere. The irony of his story (and I know a few people who have had this happen) he was an engineeer with a multinational mine and had a great job, his wife wanted to come here...but since he speaks little English, he has to take classes...and certainly is not able to work as an engineer right now. I've known of a few cases where folks were professionals (lawyers, doctors) who left during the amnesty years (political reasons) and because their English was limited and obviously their degrees were not an immediate match here, they had to start from the bottom up...you guessed it, doing jobs like McDonald's, janitorial, etc...they eventually found their way around here but it puts a lot of things in context...

It's late and I'm still awake so I'll add my two cents on this. Illegal immigration is a very complicated issue. There are no easy solutions.

These workers cut our grass, clean our toilets, cook our food and wash our dishes, yet we complain when our schools educate their children and our emergency rooms treat their illnesses. If we take advantage of their labor we should be willing to offer them services.

While some believe we are losing out on the taxes that illegals don't pay, that's just not true. Even the groups that strongly oppose illegal immigration acknowledge that the amount of taxes they would pay is insignificant. People who make minimum wage or slightly more and support families don't pay taxes under our system. If anything, they probably would qualify for the earned income credit if they paid taxes and we would be paying them money.

Even though there are social and economic problems with illegal immigrants I truly believe they do not come to our country to live off of our welfare system. They come for jobs and a better life. The woman who cleans my house (who is here semi-legally) sends money back to support her family in Colombia and her teenage daughter whom she has not seen in seven years.

Unemployment in this country now is very low. In places like Washington, DC where I live there simply is no unemployment. The illegals are filling a void. We recently had a new driveway, walkway and landscaping done at our home. Not one of the workers spoke English. All were Hispanic immigrants. They were not taking jobs away from Americans. There are no Americans in my area willing to do that work.

Because the job market here is so tight, we have day laborers. I have met some of them. They are not loiterers but they do hang out on street corners looking for work. They are trying to support their families as best as they can. And they are often victimized by their employers who cheat them. If they choose to use library computers to try to better themselves, I guess there are worse places they could be than in the library.

Some illegal immigrants have formed gangs. But we shouldn't forget than some Italian, Irish and Jewish immigrants who came here many years ago became criminals and went into organized crime.

I'm sure I've come across sounding more liberal than I really am. We can't allow illegal immigration to continue at its current pace. Something has to be done but I don't think we can throw out the folks who already are here. We can throw out the criminals. The rest we can treat with compassion and respect and remember that our parents and grandparents were immigrants too, albeit legal ones. Thanks. Tom.

Tom G....

The very reason why illegal immigrants should be given legal immigrant status through a program is exactly this point you bring up: They are often victimized by their employers who cheat them

If they were legal, there is no way this could happen...they would have legal recourse to avoid being cheated or report a dishonest/abusive employer.

The sending money back is even a bigger issue...for some countries, it is the biggest source of incoming dollars. And they get charged good money to send it (about 15% per 100 dollars or more). So tell me this, if they are already paying through the nose to send this money home via Western Union why is it too much of a burden to tax them in some form...true, it may not be much but at least it makes them fully participant in this nation's economy and system and the very services they now need/want.

A lot of the protests today revolve around HR4437. This to me is ill advised. The United States has a right to protect its borders and its citzenry as a sovereign nation. The protesters would be better served if the special interest groups trying to help them work with lawmakers to find a better solution.