Wow, Trish....will you please let us know the outcome? What are they thinking is the problem?

Trish - hope all goes well ... please keep us updated as to how things go.

Liz - re: ADHD - there are certainly kids that have problems with ADHD and do much better with medication. OTOH, there are other kids that have behavioral problems from poor parenting and get labeled as ADHD. The problem is distinguishing between them. :(

Masaki

Liz:
I finally decided to try an acupuncturist when I was still experiencing very trying problems in the neck (very stiff/sore, etc - despite range of motion exercises), the numbness in my arms, etc. I figured it wouldn't hurt to try anything (and it only cost $50/session), so I gave it a shot (after some reliable professional friends had told me about Dr Park - those that had also been very very skeptical about alternative medicine). I could not believe the difference in just one session - of course, he had a whole page of my problems listed, and was able to give significant relief to quite a few of my problems. I felt 10 yrs younger walking out that first day, but most of all, I was so relieved that I could actually "feel" again (my body had become rather numb from all my problems). (I ended up going for about a week straight daily , except Sun - and came back 3 weeks later for another 8 days). What a difference it made - maybe it's all in our psychie, but I didn't care - I could function & feel again. Of course, getting off several of the meds helped, and I do still take them, when needed (but also checked with my Primary Care Physician first). Truly, it's worth it to try it out - or see if you can get some physical therapy on the neck - I've ended up going to a clinic where they applied heat & a TENS unit that helped with the stiff/sore neck, etc.

Trish - the same for you. One thing he also helped me on was my blood pressure (my diastolic was high), even migraine headaches, etc.

Truly, good luck to both of you!! Whatever works, right - we all deserve to enjoy life to the utmost!!

Masaki--I agree, the central problem is distinguishing between true cases of ADHD and anxiety manifestations or acting out behaviors related to family dysfunction or other issues....of course, I work in an abuse/neglect context where essential family problems, some quite serious, certainly feed into behavioral/emotional problems in the children.

I see far too many children simply hastily diagnosed as having ADHD because they are too much "trouble" for parents or foster parents, etc. Some of the service agencies that provide these "diagnoses" do not do a truly careful and ethical job, do not take into account confounding variables and possibilities, and do not do not make much effort to r/o other conditions.

I see tons of kids stuffed with all kinds of meds, yet receiving no therapy, and/or where the underlying family issues are not being addressed. Then, when the kid gets worse, he's simply stuffed with more meds. Although the court is supposed to review/approve of all requests for meds, most of those get rubber stamped.

Quite outside of CPS, I personally think that the number of peds patients on psychotropic meds of various kinds is alarmingly high. It troubles me deeply. I think we are also sending a message to children to "solve" it with meds--which, in the drug-rich culture they dwell in, is probably not a good idea. Of course, there are many cases where medication is necessary and fully appropriate. It's the overuse I react to.

Ms. Marie---your account of the accupuncture experience is so similar to others I have heard--wherein people express amazement at how WELL it seems to work. Even if there is a "placebo effect" there, hey, if you feel better, who cares???????

I don't know what my resistance to trying it is...I'm so steeped in tradition, I guess, and always feel uncomfortable going outside of conventional medicine. But I'm thinking I'll try the accupuncture.

I've got both anterior and posterior pain--the front part of my shoulders and chest area, the sides of my neck (where the neck joins the shoulder), the back of my neck and my upper back. Plus the TOS-related numbness (which, I believe does involve some circulatory and nerve damage--at least according to my Dr. and the physical therapists).

When I was in physical therapy, they applied a wonderful ultrasonic heat which really helped, plus heat packs. But the thing that helped the most was really gentle massage by the physical therapist. I also did exercises designed to open up and strengthen the thoracic and back areas. Sitting in a apa helps, too, but only paliatively.

Once, on PBS, I saw a documentary of some surgeons in China using nothing but accupuncture do deliver a baby by cesarian section--no anesthesia, medication, or anything except for the accupuncture needles. I was really astounded. So, there HAS to be something to it.

There also must be something to accupressure, b/c someone showed me that trick of squeezing the fleshy part of your palm (between the thumb and fore finger to make a vascular-type headache disappear. I don't get many of those, maybe once every 5 years, but that trick works every time.

Well, if I take the accupuncture plunge, I'll let you know!!

And YEAH!! We deserve to enjoy life!!! <img border="0" alt="[hula]" title="" src="graemlins/hula.gif" />

Well, I'm very frustrated right now as I have yet to find anything out. It was scary enough to be told I was in a sudden cardiac death group and needed this defibrillator, scarier yet to then have my BP drop and the constant dizziness, but to be as scared as I am - and have no answers - is just too much to deal with. I guess that tomorrow I am going to be making a lot of calls until someone tells me something. Thanks for the support Liz, Masaki and Marie.

BTW, Marie, could a person be treated for a herniated disc and migraines at the same time? Your outcome sounds wonderful.

Trish

Trish,

I can just imagine your frustration level! Yes, put on your "Mrs. Assertive Hat" and see if you can get some answers. Please keep us informed; am thinking of you!

Trish (and all)

Trish, it sounds to me like you need a family member to advocate with the physcians on your behalf. When you are down with serious stuff, I find you need help to push the system for you to get what your need. You need to focus on feeling good.

I've been following this thread for a while. Liz, we will have to talk about the Radiculopathy and TOS. Me too. I thought I was having cardiac issues until I changed doctors. He is a Internist/Rhumatologist/orthopedist/nephrologist. When he examined me, right away he knew my intermittent pain was not cardio related. My old internist just kept telling me everything was related to me being overweight. He could see the limited range of motion. We took xrays and he knew almost without reading them. And to think I almost cancelled the cruise I took in Sept. because I was taken to the ER with chest pain strong enough to wake me up at 2 AM. I started the Physcial Therapy two weeks ago and it's a huge difference. I only get 20 sessions from my insurance per year, but, If I go weekly or twice a month I am sure it will help. The massage is amazing. I have a chiropractor friend who want to do some traction. I had a couple sessions of manual traction from the PT. Not 100% sure of that part.

Ms. Marie, I can't wait to meet you on MUSH! You are one cool lady.

Trish--I can imagine how scared you must feel. For most of us who have been reasonably healthy for most of our lives, it is difficult to suddenly start facing aging and the serious medical problems that often accompany it. Our own mortality simply stares us in the face. I have had times of great fear.

For me, I find that my faith REALLY helps, and I am able to let go of the fear and enjoy my life. Not everybody seeks that or finds it helpful, but I find it enormously comforting.

Sometimes, the fear comes back, and I have to address it anew. I can only imagine how it must feel being told that you are a candidate for sudden death.....at every moment, you must wonder.....Trish, you must feel like you walk a precipice every day.

BTW, I wouldn't hesitate to get a second opinion. This kind of thing is too critical not to be certain that you are getting the best treatment and care.


Kathy, LOL---at the brunch, we'll have to sit opposite each other so we don't have to turn our heads to the side, to be ablt to talk, LOL, LOL.

I think you'll find the PT will help. I think that TOS and Radiculopathy are a kind of "vicious cycle" situation. You get the pain, you start tensing up and accomodating and compensating by involving other muscle groups, they get inflamed, and pretty soon, you have severe pain everywhere..... And this is in addition to whatever structural/mechanical problems may also be exacerbating the situation. I also have bursitis and arthritis, and those situations, I know add to the mix.

There are a couple of good radiculopathy/TOS websites, just google the subject.

I've tried massage outside of PT, too, and I find that it does less good than the massage offered by trained physical therapists.....

I think cruising sounds like the BEST therapy........ :D

I was asked to introduce myself.
Hello, I'm David Lievsay from So. California
D / M / D - Donald / Marge / David
I'm 38, Single and have been fortunate to experience cruising at a young age.
I work in the Real Estate / Property Management business with my family (Donald / Marge - parents).
Shortly after college I experienced my first cruise on the Radisson Diamond. Ever since, I have tried to arrange a cruise every other year. I'm the family travel agent; if I did't plan it we would never travel.

Previous Cruises:
Radisson Diamond - Greek Islands, Caribbean
Radisson Mariner - Panama Canal
Silversea Cloud - Spain/Portugal, Bangkok/Singapore/Vietnam
Crystal Harmony - Pacific Coast
Royal Princess - South America

Hi David and thanks for the introduction! I am glad I know your name now, I had a hard time typing D/M/D :)

Hi David,

Welcome to LCT!!!!

Betty

Welcome aboard David.
We have lots of fun here at LCT

Hi, David---there are a bunch of us from SoCal on here. I'm pretty new myself, but this place is very welcoming and friendly....you'll feel at home in no time at all. Glad you joined us!!!!!

David, welcome to the board! You have had a tad of experience with so many good cruise lines, and have a lot to offer here! Hope you will contribute often.

After deciding I was going to extreme measures if need be, I called my clinic and begged them to tell me what was going on. I reminded them that it was Friday and it was inhumane to make me go through a weekend as well as the entire week. Luckily enough I found a sympathetic ear and got my answer. Together the doctors decided that the defibrillator will be my answer and they promised me that I will know when the surgery will be done next week. I feel great just knowing that I am going to feel normal again - and hopefully soon! I had to smile at your post Liz. When they first told me I needed this defibrillaor, I thought, "I only had one episode where I went down and how do I know I can believe this doctor?" I am currently taking an alpha course and we had just discussed doing a prayer journal this week. All of a sudden it hit me this afternoon that all of this dizziness and the BP being way out of control was my answer. It's confirmation that he WAS right. And I can go into this surgery with a lot more confidence. Again, thanks everyone for the kind thoughts.

On a lighter note, welcome David. You've taken some interesting cruises. We're glad that you've come onboard.

Trish

Welcome, David, fellow So. Californian!

My husband, Alan, and I live in Orange County. Where do you live?

Hope you enjoy participating in LCT and post often!

Hi David, welcome to LCT. Thanks for introducing yourself. I'm looking forward to your posts. You'll have fun here!

Welcome David! Thanks for the intro!

Trish - glad to hear that you've gotten some answers!

Masaki

Trish, I'm really glad your period of uncertainty is finally over and that you KNOW what the answer is. Keep us posted, and let us know when your surgery date it....

I took the alpha course, too, it was great!! I'll send prayers your way. Don't forget to let us know.

Beth, could you by any chance give me the contact info for the accupunturist in DC? I have some medical stuff that I'm told could benefit from accupuncture, but the practitioner that my friends recommend is in Maryland, and I live in Virginia and work in DC, so that location is the hardest for me to get to.

Trish, it sounds like you've been on a rough ride lately. Sorry I've been out of touch. I just sent you an email.

Dave, welcome aboard. This is a great bunch on this board. I've sailed with a few of them (including Trish), and look forward to sailing with more!

Trish - what wonderful news, and what a monumental relief it must be for you!! The "fear of the unknown" always haunts us, and I swear it only makes it worse!! Glad to hear they're on the right track, and that you feel a comfort level to what you're facing ahead!! We're all pulling for you (and pushing, and shoving, and grabbing - in every way!!) :banana:

Ms. Marie--wow, the way you describe the accupuncture sessions, sounds like a spa treatment----soothing music, lights, etc. I so do agree with you that helping your own attitude be as positive as possible DOES help with so many things. It isn't always easy to get there, though, but definitely worth it.

I've got my date!!!! May 2nd. I feel so much better. When I told them I didn't want to go to their choice of hospital, I found out the EP doc does have admitting privilages in one other place. So I took it. AND, I got the first surgery of the day as well as a Monday.

I almost choked though when I went to my ortho today and he agreed that he thinks the epidurals are wearing off, and he ordered a quick MRI for tomorrow as I will never be able to do another one after the defibrillator is in place. He still believes I am going to need the surgery and I'm afraid he is going to be right. I talked to a couple of people in the waiting room before my appointment that said immediately after their surgery they just wanted to die, and no driving for six weeks and no more than 30 minutes in a car as a passenger, etc. We went out to dinner with friends tonight and they said that it looked like I wouldn't be out in the boat this summer and I bummed all over again. Maybe I can hold off until fall with the neck surgery!?

Trish

Trish - glad to hear that they've finally got the ICD implantation scheduled. Sorry to hear that other things are acting up now - hope the MRI comes out OK.

Masaki

Trish--how frustrating to have one thing work out and now have the other thing hanging over you. Let us know how the MRI turns out.

Trish: Glad to hear that you have gotten the one surgery scheduled, truly hope that it helps get you back to being the best, and have no more worries there!!! That has to be quite a relief -

As for the surgery to the neck - I'd wait to see what your Dr recommends, and determine if it is necessary to even have the surgery, and other possible alternatives (ie physical therapy, acupuncture, whether to do it immediately, or later). And I believe every ones recovery will be different, depending on the complexity of the situation. With mine, I did have some limitations for it is a major surgery, and surgery always takes a lot out of you. Because mine was a bit extensive (4 herniated discs, actually replaced 3, fused 2), we scheduled immediately (mind you, this had been a problem for a while, and never had the neurological workout from the military). Anyway, when I woke up, I couldn't believe it was already over, and I wasn't feeling bad at all (quite a pleasant surprise!!). And I was surprised how quickly I rebounded (only had to spend 2 days in the hospital). Mind you, you'll sleep a lot that first day from the meds, but I was up and moving about that nite & the next day (ie going to the bathroom) without much pain, and was released that night with a hard brace on my neck. My drive home is an hour, and it wasn't wearing at all (of course, I had the seat rolled backwards). By the following week, I was going to town and shopping (I didn't drive, my sister did but I did use those wonderful little electric carts around Walmart!!) Of course, those were short trips (town is about 20 minutes away), and I was able to be on my own within 2 weeks (since I'm single, and my twin had to return to work), but had many friends checking up on me. I was able to drive after 3 weeks of surgery (after my first checkup with the Neurosurgeon), of course, turning my head was limited and I was very careful. But it did take me a while to do anything that might jar the neck - more so because I wanted to be careful. Of course, that was me, and every scenario is different (my twin also had to have this done, altho she only had 2 herniated discs - but the biggest difference between hers and mine was that they used bone from her hip, I used a cadaver's. She had more problems with the hip than the neck, significant difference!!) You have to remember we are quite "adaptable" to what we are dealt with, you learn to live within your limits, and make the most of what you have (trust me, I seriously learned that when I was in the first Gulf War, out in the desert living in a tent, no "facilities", we had to build our own toilets and burn our human waste (yes, burn since the desert was so solid you couldn't dig enough to bury it!)) But ask your Dr about the recovery process. I was quite concerned as well, but I was rather surprised that I was able to get around as well as I could. I didn't stop either, for I knew that if I didn't keep doing things, it would catch up with me in the end, and if I did feel something (like I might overdue it), I cut back. Either way - I truly hope you'll find the right solution - you're definately on the right track, but hang in there!! ;) Sorry so long, kept coming back to this and adding on!!

I go back to see the ortho on Wed to find out how the MRI turned out. So, things are moving along.

Ms. Marie: I've done the PT thing already, but I do still want to try the acupuncture. There was a woman in the waiting room that kept saying she felt so terrible after the sugery but didn't have pain. I just nodded beacuse I didn't get it. Your surgery didn't sound too terribly bad. My doctor is very firm on no driving for six weeks, which sounds like an eternity, but I guess it's not the end of the world. I had already decided to use a cadaver as it sounded less painful. There was another person in the waiting room who used his own hip bone and said he found that to be the worst of it. You're right about being adaptable. Your time in the Gulf War doesn't sound at all pleasant. I guess maybe I can handle a little old surgery! Thanks for the reminder.

Trish

Trish:
Six weeks is not long, considering that it will definately change it all for you!! It was closer to 4 weeks when I drove, and it was due to necessity (and only a very short distance first). Mine truly had little pain, it was more frustration of the inconvenience (plus wearing that hard brace in the Texan summer!!) - but as with all major surgeries, it took a lot out of you - so you have to build your strength and stamina again. It took a while for me to walk any great distance - that was the biggest roadblock for me. Glad to hear you're using the cadaver, definately a much easier way to go!! So, at least it sounds like you're on the right track - got a plan, and have researched it to a good comfort level. Just keep taking a step at a time, and before you know it, you'll be doing cartwheels (okay, maybe in our dreams - I couldn't even do one when I was a kid!!) The best of luck to you!!

By the way, did they ever mention anything about a Myelogram/Neurologist?? That's where they shoot the dye up your spine and take an X-ray & CAT scan. That's what determined the extent of the herniated discs, as well as the pinched nerves that were causing some of the numbness in my arms/hands?? That was what the military didn't do - if they had, it probably wouldn't have gotten as bad as it was.

Keep smiling - we're all thinking good & happy thoughts for you!! :rolleyes:

The only time they mentioned about the dye was when my ortho said that after I have the ICD that they can never do MRI's ever again and would have to do the Myelogram and dye and he made a face like it might be painful? Actually, my Radiculapathy has been not too bad. Now that the epidurals are wearing off, I'm not sure what will happen with that. I'm getting a lot of that shoulder and shoulder blade pain again. With the exception of worrying about missing out on summer (a very big deal for those of us who live in MN) I'm ready to get all this over with and move on to better things and feeling better. So there it is. Thanks for the happy thoughts. I have a feeling I am going to need them.

Trish

Trish, hopefully it won't come to that. To be honest, I didn't have a very good experience with the Myelogram. My MRI did not disclose the magnitude of my damage, and the only way they could get an accurate assessment was the Myelogram. The shooting the dye up the spine was nothing, but they tip you upside down and you have to raise your face/neck up - which was quite painful (especially with as much damage as I had). I had problems holding my neck in that position for very long, so it ended up having to do it several times until they were able to get it right. That was the worst part of it, and wouldn't have been as bad if I could have held it in place for the right amount of time, but couldn't because I had so much damage in the neck. You have to rest the rest of that day in the ward, and at home as well for a couple of days (drinking lots of water). The only other thing that can happen, did happen to me. When they withdrew the dye insert, some air got in, and you get the worst headaches (I had to return to the hospital and have them redo it a week later!) So, obviously, it's not a pleasant memory for me, the surgery was actually much easier!!! :mecry:

And, being originally from Wis, I do understand about enjoying summers & fall!! Trust me, you'll definately enjoy it more once this is all over and done with!!

That's weird that the MRI didn't show the extent of the problem as much as the myelogram. The MRI is MUCH more sensitive than the myelogram. Wonder if the MRI was read properly?

Masaki

Masaki - that's what I thought too. But I could barely move my head to the right or left for a while, so I had an MRI done (actually several) in the military - and the Orthopedic Surgeon told me the problems in my neck were "consistent with someone my age" - I was 45. Then, 1 1/2 yrs later when my hands/arms started going numb as well, another MRI was taken & read, and I was referred to a Neurosurgeon (civilian) who could not determine the extent without doing the Myelogram, which identified the 4 herniated discs, etc. Now, I hadn't done anything inbetween those times that would have caused the damage in the neck (ie car accident, major jarring - although when I broke my leg in 3 places in an airborne accident 8 years previously, I hit the ground very hard) Trust me, I wish it would have been identified in any way a long time ago - for I wouldn't have had to endure the neck problems for so long, nor the pains I experienced with the Myelogram. Any ideas???? Of course, it's water over the bridge now - but it did aggravate me that it took so long to diagnose!!

Ouch! If you hit the ground that hard, I mean you broke your leg in THREE places, don't you think that could have injured your neck as well? How long were you in one of those lovely casts?

Trish

Trish - well, actually, my adrenaline was pumped up so high (ahhh, it was my "first" and thus, last jump I ever made - and it was quite exciting - disasterous, but exciting!!) that I didn't feel a thing when I landed (other than having the wind knocked out of me - but I did here the "pops"!!) Having never broken anything before - I didn't have any idea the extent of my injury. Typical military mindmeld - I was more concerned if I was going to be able to jump the next day (wanted to get my Airborne wings)!! My family was quite relieved (thought I was crazy in the first place) - at least I didn't kill myself!! And, no, I didn't think about injuring my neck as much as I thought it would have injured my back. Don't recall anyone ever checking - as I was in quite a bit of pain once they removed that boot (and discovered that not only had I broken it, but had dislocated the ankle as well!!) Yikes, I shudder at that whole thought of when they had to put it back in place!! It did take me 2 1/2 yrs to finally get back to normal, as I kept reinjurying it in my attempt to get healthy (that athletic side of me!!) I definately can tell when there's a weather change now!! And then there was the ankle I broke right after Desert Storm had ended, and I was hobbling around the desert on crutches. Now that made for an unusual sight!! (I was stubborn and wouldn't let them medivac me back to Germany - probably stupid too!!) :ohmy:

Marie - I had to laugh at the image of you trying to jump again the next day after breaking your leg in 3 places. :) Still don't know how a MRI could have missed 4 herniated discs in your neck. I guess there's no telling at this point.

Masaki

My name is Alan and my wife's is Dawn and thus the display name is Dawn. (homage to her?) I'm 59 and a financial consultant and she is a retired dentist. We live in Sausalito with our cat, our hot tub and a beautiful view of the GG bridge. Since Dawn retired and since I can pretty much travel when I want we do a considerable amount of cruising as well as other jaunts. This year we took a Celebrity cruise to Mexico, a Crystal and have booked a Seabourn from Istanbul to Athens, a Radisson to St. Petersburg, and a Athens/Singapore sailing. We usually will surf the net and if we find a bargain (and I mean a bargain!) we don't really care about the destination or even the length of cruise. Although this is the first day I've ever seen the board, I hope to become a regular lurker. Ciao.

Welcome, Dawn and Alan!! You will see that there are many Californians on this board!! I live in SoCal, but occasionally get up to the bay area, b/c my son lives there. I look forward to hearing more about you.

Welcome Dawn & Alan!! I know the area well, as I have a place in San Rafael where my sister now lives. Great view, great atmosphere!! Envious of all your projected and past cruises - that's great!! And you'll find this board addicting - great folks!!

Masaki: Yes, as I told you, that's the mentality they drill into you - it's a grueling 3 weeks (for some, at least), and the easiest part is actually the jumps (or so I thought!!). And after all my efforts, I REALLY wanted it!! All I can say now is that I bounced well when I landed!!! <img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" /> As for the MRI's, I had to go back and review my documents (curiosity killed this cat!!) On the Cervical MRI in the military, my military Orthopedic Surgeon informed me that I had "mild degenereative disk disease consistent with someone my age" and that I didn't require surgery. I realize now that the current MRI's (or those for the herniated disks) only did Lumbar and Thoracic, not Cervical. But the radiologist reviewed the cervical MRI when I was in the military (from 1 1/2 yrs prior) with the write up for the other two - and also identified some disk protrusions and cervical stenosis, etc that wasn't mentioned by the Orthosurgeon. The Neurosurgeon basically recommended to either do the Myelogram (for a neurological assessment) or continue nonsurgical therapy. He never mentioned herniated disks until I went for the review after the Myelogram. Looking back, I guess "disk protrusions" with "cervical stenosis" is the criteria for herniated disks (which I didn't know at the time, nor did my Dr tell me)- too much medical jargon for me to interpret other than the shock on knowing I had to have surgery and soon (and I thought all the jargon in the military was bad!!) Still, I wish this would have been taken care of earlier than later, as time only made it worse - obviously!! THANKS for straightening me out - I was rather perturbed at the thought that the MRI's weren't sufficient (as I thought they were!), now I know better!!

Welcome, Dawn and Alan. Wow, living in Sausolito with a view of the Golden Gate. That sounds pretty close to heaven. And your travel plans sound wonderful too! Enjoy this board. It's a great group of people with lots of good information about cruising and travel in general. Again, welcome!