Hi Everyone,

I have a question about bargaining in the bazaars. About what percentage of the initial asking price do you think is a good figure? By good figure, I mean that we don't get overcharged AND the vendor makes a fair profit.

I really struggle with the whole bargaining thing. We had a horrendous experience during a Tauck tour in Africa. At one point, we were in a bus headed to Nairobi and went into a sort of Trading Post area. Of course, all the vendors surrounded the bus to sell their wares. One of the vendors had carved wooden animal statues. (About 12 inches high.) He was asking $5.00 for them. One of the women on the bus kept insisting on only $2.00. Eventually, he gave it to her for the $2.00, but you could just see the desperation on his face. I was sick about it and was so sorry later that I hadn't handed the extra $3.00 out the window myself. Of course, I thought about it too late. I was too busy struggling to keep from telling her what I thought of her behavior.

As you can imagine, a Tauck tour plus airfare to Africa is pretty costly. No one in that group was going to miss $3.00. But to that vendor, it might have made the difference between feeding his children that night or not.

Anyway, since then I've struggled with the whole bargaining idea. I don't want to reply that whole situation with myself in the Ugly American role.

Anyone have an idea of a fair percentage?

Thanks!

Kathy

Kathy,

I don't have any knowledge for you about bargaining tactics in Istanbul -- although others who have been to the bazaar will undoubtedly have good advice -- but I applaud your caring attitude. I like to get a good deal as well as the next person, but it is so important to remember that sometimes a small amount extra, such as maybe in a tip, would mean so much more to another person. An added unfortunate aspect of your story is that the woman's behavior bothered you much more than it ever did her, I'm sure. She doesn't sound like the kind of person who would lay awake at night wondering whether she had treated someone fairly.

Kathy,

I am so glad you asked this question. I, too have wondered the very same thing, as I hate to haggle.

I also want to add that I find your compassion for that vendor very touching and humane. I, too, would have been appalled at the behavior of such an individual, for bickering about something so petty.

I would hate to nickle and dime (or Turkish Lira, as the case is)someone who truly needed that money to survive. However, I would also hate to be taken.

Anyone out there have a good guideline?

Kathy: The $2 negotiators are not be forgiven - Joanna

Kathleen,
In Kenya, one of our tour guides took us to his village outside one of the game reserves where all the Masai were living in thatched huts. The women set up "shopping" just for us - all the women of the village had their rugs out with their wares (pretty much the same items you saw everywhere else). We didn't haggle one bit and paid whatever their asking price since it was obvious they were not getting rich off the tourists. However, you would go into some of the established shops/trading posts and bargaining is such a part of their culture - it just absolutely wore me out being approached constantly to where I just had to stop shopping. Interesting enough, at the end of our trip we had lunch at a very upscale hotel in Nairobi, and we found the prices were much cheaper at the hotel gift shop for the same items we saw in absolutely the middle of nowhere and no bargaining required! Not that I minded paying what we did to be fair to the people, but it is hard to figure! On a lesser scale, I envision the same thing in Istanbul (probably alot like Morroco and their rugs). I'm really not planning on buying anything (I bought my rug in Morroco) - so I doubt if my husband and I even go into the Grand Bazaar. Anyway, I will be in Istanbul later this month and will let you know - sorry I'm no help in knowing what is a fair price. The one thing I learned in Africa and Morroco, is if you like what you are buying - buy it if you think it is reasonable and don't look back, because someone will always proudly tell you they got it cheaper.

Sally

I hope you find the following helpful and buy with ease in Turkey. I know I will!!

Chapter 30 of HOW TO EUROPE The Complete Travelers Handbook, John Bermont, claims, "In Istanbul, go to the bazaar and shop for Turkish carpets, leather goods, and dust collectors. Haggle, haggle, haggle, and keep on haggling."

In the book, Economics for Starters, it states that "In the oriental bazaars, like this famous one in Istanbul, haggling is expected."

I like finding out the boundaries of a haggle because it is a business and the stated price normally is unrealistic and is overstated to allow for haggling. If you know the boundaries, you can usually have more fun with the haggling and do it better.

Haggling can be as much fun as shopping if you treat it as a game and an expected part of the cultural business exchange. But, I also find it important to find out the rules of haggling in the country. One rule in Istanbul I do know is this..

This is shopping Grand Bazaar-style.
1. Haggling is expected. The rule is: offer half the initial price, and aim to settle at around two thirds.
2. Cash in Turkish currency works best and there are lots of cash exchange places.
3. DON'T make an offer and back away; it's considered very bad form.
4. You can comfortably accept refreshment without being committed to a purchase. It is part of their gracious culture.

Shops..other tips
1. Shops stay open late in Istanbul. Officially they close at 10pm but several stay open until midnight.
2. As a rule, haggling is not practiced in the shops in the main shopping districts and is likely to cause offence.
3. Claiming VAT is not easy in Turkey. In theory visitors are entitled to a refund on leaving the country on a purchase over $100 made in euros from shops displaying the tax-free sales sticker. Your passport has to be presented at the time of buying and you need to ask for a special invoice - 'Ozel Fatural'. This invoice is given to customs on departure and the refund collected at the airport bank. However, sometimes the refund is posted on. This can take months and it's common for it never to arrive at all. A better option is to enquire if the shop offers a cash refund or a bank cheque which may be cashed at the airport.

About Haggling:

While all the concern about poor locals needing that extra dollar to survive sounds noble, but it forgets that this is a business deal. If the vendor does not want to sell the product at the offered price, be assured that he won't.
I remember once in St Martin shopping for watches (bargaining is expected in the stores there). I was told that because of some BS reason I was going to be offered a special price. He quoted $500. I balked. A few minutes later it was $250. Now, I knew that the same watch was available at Bloomingdale's for about $125. I finally paid between $90-$100. When I got back to NY, I checked Bloomingdale's. It was about $80!

There is no rule about what percent of the starting price would be a fair price. Many vendors will even offer the same item at different starting prices to different customers. It all depends on how much they think that they can get.

My general rule is a simple one: If they sell the item to you, you probably have paid too much.

So, be sure that you want the item. Then, have fun!

Doug

Doug, you are a master haggler. I've seen you at work during VOF (although the gondolier wouldn't budge).

So glad we are going with you to the Grand Bazaar! Haggling is not my strong point.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, everyone.

Doug, I'm afraid this is one of those "agree to disagree" types of moments. I'm not trying to "sound noble". I was just expressing how I felt about an experience I had.

I think the "rule" listed in Sedona's post will probably be a pretty good fit for me.

Kathy

kathy: I love to haggle and I think I do it well BUT the difference between $5 and $2 isn't haggling to me it is simple cheapness especially to people who need the money!!! - Joanna

Does anyone know if the value or quality of rugs is better in the Istanbul than in the smaller towns?