Hello to you all on the "interested list" for ROAR.

The group planners did a fantastic job researching all of this and came up with a dream South African trip. They then asked me to ask as TA for the trip. After looking it over although I originally said I dont want to do land I changed my mind. It looks fantastic. THIS IS FOR APRIL 2006.

Things have been moving VERY rapidly in the last week. We went from still tossing things around and getting mulitple bids to a confirmed signed agreement with Ker & Downey Operators www.kerdowney.com for the following schedule. There are TWO very LUXURY camps for the safari part right next to each other both as wonderful as each other. Ebony and Boulders. Separated by the joint spa facility. www.singita.com Also a first rate hotel in Capetown and the train ride between Cape town and Johannesburg is supposed to be one of the best in the world. We take a charter flight to the game preserves. An optional trip to Victoria Falls is offered after the main trip.

We will be doing many things together so we will just start with one camp, Boulders and fill it up and then move into the other camp Ebony. The group planning it all deposited today.

The pricing is approximate as it is based on 2005 prices. Things may go up in 2006. However we are still negotiating to see if we can lock in 2005 prices with Singita and Cape Grace. We have not committed to either of them yet although the properties are on hold. The reason we all deposited today was to strengthen our position in negotiation. We will not have DEFINITE pricing to the penny until around April of 2005. Deposits mean we are serious.

There is a rebate on these fares but I think it best if those interested contact me directly about that. That rebate is OFF the fares shown on the itinerary.

We may be able to use a different property if we have enough people over the amount that Singita can hold. There is another property Royal Malewane www.royalmalewane.com that we all loved and was the first choice but thought it was too small - only holds 20.

Prices will be about the same.

Deposit requirements are $1000 a booking whether it is a single or a double occupancy. If you cancel there is a $250 cancellation fee per booking (not per person) imposed by Ker & Downey. However, I can do name changes without penalty to the point where names are placed on flight records. So if you decide against it the odds are good that I will get someone to take your spot.

I have a lot of detailed information about insurance etc but until I know you are still seriously interested with the intinerary, dates (which are firm) and price there is no point in going further.

I do not have brochures yet but you can check out the properties by the internet.

Web Pages:
www.capegrace.com - Hotel in Capetown
www.singita.com Boulders and Ebony
www.royalmalewane.com - Possible overflow lodge.
www.rovos.co.za - train between Capetown and Johannesburg.
www.kerdowney.com - safari operator

Just for your information. No shots are required for this trip at all. You will need to take Anti Malarial pills while on the Game Preserve.

YOu can email me tonight or tomorrow or call me tomorrow if you want more details. Sorry to spring this on you so quickly but it has been like a tornado this last week for us all and changing by the minute. We really just confirmed today.

We only have room for 18 rooms with both camps combined. If you want to go please get in touch with me very quickly. It will be first come first served. We can definitely also take Royal Malewane if we have enough people.

Ngaire
Specially Prepared for
ROAR Group
2006


April 20
Arrive Cape Town
Upon arrival in Cape Town you will be met and transferred to the Cape Grace Hotel.

Cape Grace Hotel
This five-star hotel is located at the famous Waterfront, a unique setting on its own promontory surrounded by water on three sides. All rooms open onto views of Table Mountain, the yacht marina or a working harbor. All guestrooms are fully air-conditioned, with separate dressing rooms, walk-in showers, separate toilets, double vanities, generous lounge area, satellite TV, mini-bar fridge, direct dial telephone and 24 hour room service. The restaurant provides an extensive menu to satisfy most tastes.

SHOULD YOU WISH TO UPGRADE – THERE ARE NOW NEW LOFT ROOMS AVAILABLE AT THE CAPE GRACE
Huge dormer windows, balconies, terraced gardens opening to spectacular views of Table Mountain or the working harbor are some of the unique features
Overnight Cape Grace B

April 21
Cape Town – Half Day private city tour with Robben Island
This morning you will be picked up at the hotel at 8:30am for your private orientation tour of the city of Cape Town. Highlights include: The Castle of Good Hope, District Six Museum, Freedom Square – where Mandela appeared the first time after being released from prison), the SA Museum, The Company Gardens, as well as St. George’s Cathedral. You will also visit the legendary Greenmarket Square and take the cable car up to Table Mountain (weather-permitting).

You will be dropped off at the hotel and those who wish to tour Robben Island can do so at this time. The tour boat departs every hour on the hour from the V & A waterfront adjacent to Cape Grace.

Includes entrance fees to Castle of Good Hope, SA Museum and District Six Museum. The cable car ticket is excluded. Robben Island tour ticket excluded.
Overnight Cape Grace Hotel B

April 22
Cape Town – Full Day Winelands Tour
Today you will be picked up at 8:45 for your private Winelands tour.
South Africa’s winelands have been described as the most beautiful and scenic in the world – characterized by majestic mountains, valleys c carpeted with vineyards, quaint villages, good wine and food, art culture and much more.

You will visit the three most popular wine routes in the Western Cape. Taste wines at famous wine estates set against spectacular mountain backdrops and the finest Cape Dutch architecture. Visits to Stellenbosch, Franschoek and Paarl are on the program.

A cellar tour and two wine tastings are included in the rate. Lunch is included.
Overnight Cape Grace B/L

April 23
Cape Town
Today is at your leisure to enjoy shopping or other personal interest in the area.
Overnight Cape Grace B

April 24
Depart Cape Town/Rovos Rail
Today you will be picked up from the hotel and transferred to the train station for your journey on Rovos Rail. Fully inclusive.

11:00 Depart from platform 23 at Cape Town station and proceed inland via Worcester.
18:00 Upon arrival at Matjiesfontein guests tour this quaint village.
19:00 Depart Matjiesfontein.

April 25
Rovos Rail
12:00 Upon arrival at Modder River Station near Kimberley we transfer to the historic Kimberley Club for lunch and then take the electric tram from the City centre for a tour of the Big Hole and museum. 16:00 Depart Kimberley.

April 26
Rovos Rail/Johannesburg/Singita
12:00 Arrive Rovos Rail Station, Pretoria.

Upon arrival you will be met and transferred to the Johannesburg Airport for your private Chartered flight to Singita safari lodge in the Kruger National Park area.

Singita
Located in the Sabi Sand Game Reserve on the western border of the Kruger National Park. Intimacy is the hallmark of Singita's special style - just 9 exquisitely appointed double suites, separated into two exclusive camps set in shady woodland above the Sand River. Each suite ensures absolute privacy with it's own en-suite bathroom and outside shower, double-sided fireplace, air-conditioning, private leisure deck and living area, with views across the river to the plains beyond. Game activities are conducted in open safari vehicles to optimize photographic opportunities.
Overnight Singita B/L/D

April 27,28,29
On Safari at Singita
Enjoy the safari activites.
Overnight Singita B/L/D

April 30
Singita/Johannesburg
After breakfast you will board your charter flight from the lodge to the Johannesburg International Airport. Upon arrival you will be met and assisted with your connections.


End of Ker & Downey Arrangements


Pricing

Based on Sept 2005

Based on 20 people (Singita Ebony/Boulders Lodge):
Estimated price per person sharing: $8,602
Single supplement: $2,769

Upgrades:
Additional $557 p/p for Royal Suite - Rovos
Additional: $25 p/p p/n for Luxury loft room – Cape Grace
Additional: $270 p/p p/n for Suite – Royal Livingstone

Option International Air:

Price subject to change & based on availability

Examples based on 2005 fares. Exact airfare cannot be quoted until April 2006 fares are available.

Economy:
KLM/NW from New York: $1,232 p/p
Houston or DFW: $1,445 p/p

Business:
KLM/NW from New York: $4,470 p/p
Houston or DFW: $4,589 p/p


Safari Cost Includes:

· Charter flight
Cape Town/Singita

· Deluxe Hotel accommodations in Cape Town;

· All transfers and Tours as mentioned in the above itinerary (including Table Mt. Cable Car ticket);

· Deluxe safari accommodations at Singita including all meals, tea/coffee, game activities, beverages and laundry;

· Rovos Rail All Inclusive de-luxe suite accommodations;

· Table d’hôte meals as specified in the itinerary: B=full breakfast, L=lunch, D=dinner, (L) = Lunch if time permits.

· All game viewing activities as normally offered from camp/lodge.

· Porterage at Johannesburg Airport, Cape Town Airport, Cape Town station, Capital Park station & Cape Grace


Safari Does Not Include:
Anything not specified in the “Cost Includes” above; passports, visas, nor cost of obtaining same; airport departure taxes; any and all items of a personal nature including, but not limited to communications charges, laundry, beverages, film, tobacco, trip insurance and gratuities.


Specially Prepared for
ROAR GROUP - POST TRIP VICTORIA FALLS
2006

April 30
Johannesburg/Livingstone
Upon arrival in Johannesburg you will connect to your international flight to Livingstone. On arrival you will be met and transferred to The Royal Livingstone Hotel.

The Royal Livingstone Hotel
The Royal Livingstone Hotel has been carefully designed to capture the grace of a bygone era with large shaded verandas and open spaces cooled by swirling fans and tall shutters. Each bedroom has its own bathroom and air-conditioning with private balconies and terraces that offer spectacular views of the Zambezi River and beyond.

The traveler’s bar and lounge is a place where you can relax under thatched shade in comfortable armchairs or on low ottomans. Here high tea is served in the afternoons or later in the evening you may linger over some fine port and a cigar. The a la carte restaurant will serve a range of exquisite dishes from around the world.
There is a beautiful swimming pool, shops, a beauty parlor, a good hairdresser and a masseur.

Tonight In the fading twilight hours (4:30 pm), you will enjoy a sunset cruise. Heed the call of Africa while sipping traditional cocktails and enjoying light snacks. After this most memorable experience, you will be transferred back to your hotel.
Overnight Royal Livingstone B

May 1
Livingstone
Enjoy your day at leisure.

Today you will enjoy a tour of the Falls.
Overnight The Royal Livingstone B

May 2
Livingstone/Johannesburg
Today you will be met and transferred to the Livingstone Airport in sufficient time for your Nationwide flight departing to Johannesburg. Arrive in Johannesburg in plenty of time for your International flight back to the USA. B


Estimated price per person sharing: $ 534
Single supplement: $329
2005 flight price JNB/LVI/JNB: $392 p/p


Safari Cost Includes:

· Standard Hotel accommodations in Livingstone;

· All transfers and sight seeing as mentioned in the above itinerary;


Visa will be waived in Zambia when I provide them with the guest’s Passport info.

Safari Does Not Include:
Anything not specified in the “Cost Includes” above; passports, visas, nor cost of obtaining same; airport departure taxes; any and all items of a personal nature including, but not limited to communications charges, laundry, beverages,(except where part of the offerings of Singita or Rovos train) film, tobacco, trip insurance and gratuities.

I have to tell y'all, this has been one of the most fun trip planning group session I have ever sat in on. We were throwing ideas all over, and Marcie was sorting them, and Leslie was putting them on a spreadsheet for us!

When we started looking at all of this in early July, I had a trip to Victoria in the works and hadn't planned to take my laptop along. Wrong! It travelled right with me, and with the high-speed access at the hotel, I was able to keep up.

Rest assured that we are pretty sure we looked closely at every single "camp" that we thought would suit our group.

This is going to be SO much fun!

I will second Pam on her enthusiasm for this trip and the fun we had in the planning process, with e-mails flying back and forth through three time zones, some days from dawn to late at night. We hope all interested will enjoy reviewing the fruits of our research.

Look forward to meeting you all on land in Africa '06, if not on board a ship before!

Kudos to Ngaire for leaping in to pull it
together! :nw:

------------------


Leslie

I have some arm twisting to do. I know that Marty will be nervous about ending up in an African hospital for one reason or another.We really loved Africa when we went a few years ago. This trip sounds really great to me.

Ngaire and ROAR planning group:

Thanks for exceptional due dilligence your planning is remarkable..Ida and I look forward
to sharing this trip of a lifetime with all.
Special thanks to Marcie & Tom for serving as the catalyst that starting this all and flaming our interest.

Wes & Ida

Ohhhhh....I would have loved to do this trip...it is just too far out of my budget. But even so, I thank Marcie and Ngaire and all those who put so much leg work into the trip. You have created a dream trip for those lucky people who can go.

Wow, incredible that you guys got this together so quickly. I, too, have to work on my husband. I am thinking that if I really want to see Africa (in the near future) that, this is the way to go. I don't think John would ever consider going it alone. Ngaire........pleazzzzz talk your boyfriend into it!!!!
Kudos to you all for the hard work :D

A huge thank you to Ngaire for finalizing so much of our planning. Yes, this has truly been a "labor of love" and we've loved every minute of it! We turned the reins over to Ngaire who has done an unbelieveable job!

Kimmi, you and John must come with us! April 28th is Tom's birthday! What better place to celebrate than in a gorgeous safari camp with the fun people he adores! As much as I want you and John on MINT (as you well know from all my hounding!) I'd rather you be on ROAR ... truly a trip of a lifetime!!

Sheri:

FIND A WAY!!!

Trip looks wonderful. Price looks great (after looking up the prices on all of the provider's sites). We are thinking of this as a once in a lifetime trip. So what if it sets back retirement a year. :D

The group has done great. I don't know all that transpired (probably like watching sausage being made)...just the results are wonderful.

Wes - so glad you and Ida can join us! We are looking forward to meeting you.

A special round of thanks to Ngaire, Marcie, Leslie, Claudia, Olivia and Pam for an incredible amount of work in a short period of time. We're looking at this as a "trip of a lifetime" too, Marc. Now what can we do to get the clock moving faster towards April 2006? <img border="0" alt="[jam]" title="" src="graemlins/jammin.gif" /> Cheers, Anne & Gary

Anne & Gary,

Thanks so much for the gracious welcome. Ida and I look forward to sharing the "Trip of TWO Lifetimes," with all ROAR members.

Wes & Ida

Sounds like a great trip! The Cape Grace is one of the world's best small hotels, in my opinion. The loft rooms are worth the additional money. Have been on the Blue Train from Cape Town to Pretoria, understand that Rovos Rail is better. Everyone will love Singita - luxury and (almost) guaranteed sighting of the big 5 in 3 days.

Good call to stay in Zambia rather than Zimbabwe for a Vic Falls stay - we stayed at Tongabezi last year. Royal Livingstone is closer in to the Falls. Don't miss the helicopter ride!

It's an expensive trip, but there are few bargains in Southern Africa - the price is reasonable based on my experince.

The only thing I would change? Try to include Cape point during the Cape Town stay. It's a spectacular drive and affords the opportunity to have one foot in the Atlantic and the other in the Indian Ocean

It is just killing me that I can't go...let me just ask...IF I am reading this correctly, it will be approximately $10k pp??

It looks like a little less than that. Of course, we need spending money, too.

It is 600 days away. Figure $15 per day between now and then.

I was thinking along the same lines as you...$15 a day sounds do-able...yeah right....yikes...

You all are going to love Cape Town! The Cape Grace is a fine hotel; one of the top 4 there. You'll have to do Table Mountain and Camps Bay. Our good friend Ragi Moonsamy lives in Constantia and is part owner of the Table Bay Hotel. As you get closer to the trip I can ask him for suggestions if you like. The wine country is a wonderful day trip. Fantastic wines! Don't think you'll have time to do the Cape of Good Hope, Boulders Beach(Cape penquins; lots of them) and False Bay, but it's a wonderful day trip. If you like gardens, Kirstenbosch is one of the best and is not very far from downtown. If you like Indian food, Bukhara in Cape Town is one of the best in the world(not too spicy; just right). Cape Town is pristine and unspoiled; a great place to visit. Wish we could join you, but the planning is a bit far out for us. Sure wish RSSC would do a cruise thru Cape Town again; we'd do it in a heartbeat!

This is so exciting!! I feel like a real LCT'er now, even though this isn't a cruise. Kudos to Marcie for keeping me in the loop. I can't wait to meet everyone.

Andrea

In my book this is a cruise - just a land cruise. The train ride are the days at sea and Capetown and Singita are the ports. All inclusive on the train and in Singita. Feels like a cruise to me.

Congratulations and thanks to everyone who participated in the planning of this trip of a lifetime! I really didn't participate at all because I thought there was no way I could afford it, but I'm going to do some number crunching and see if there's any way to manage it. It sounds perfect!

We look forward to meeting our fellow ROARers. We're in Ebony.

Special, special thanks to those that spent so much time organizing this. Truth be told, I feel that I've taken advantage of the organizers -- I (we) get all the benefit of their hard work w/o contributing. I will have to think of a way to express my (our) appreciation particularly to Marcie...

I just told Nancy this morning, she was thrilled. It should be a good weekend ...

Bill (and Nancy)

Doug, my brother (the former Navy pilot I told you about) is in africa now and went to that Indian Restaurant Bukhara, as well as MadameZ's, Five Flies, and had great reports. Bill and Nancy, Ngaire was sure you would be one of the earliest on board with the group!

I had so much fun participating on the "planning board" for this trip. It was all I could do to keep up with all the e-mails flying everyday, sometimes I would come home from work and find 40-60 of them, much good humor all along the way! Since we were five, I called us the "research pentagon" I think I contributed very little until near end only to add confusion because I was saying maybe RM isn't big enough for this group, and we need to be closer than RM + Boulders! At any rate we now may end up filling 3 properties if there is the interest I anticipated (at least I hope so, it isn't a hard sell when you look at the itinerary). If Ngaire makes Royal Malewane available to expand the group, definitely look into it as it was our first choice in the beginning, but only held 20 people. Singita properties must be almost full by now. What a great "land cruise" this is going to be! Wes, are your friends now joining us? Sheri, I hope you can find a way! Andrea, Bette, and Kimmi, just do it and sign up! This is going to be so much fun, and just as luxurious as a Radisson cruise! Truly a once in a lifetime trip!

I am in a hotel in Philadelphia right now, on a shpping trip to get the "mother of the groom" dress, and wedding is in less than a month! Have tried now three times to post more.

In our search for a land cruise, it was unbelievable how many things came up among the five of us. We were definitely in the "Princess" mode. Here were our concerns. Private plunge pools, all-inclusive, best safaris, real air conditioning as opposed to "fresh" air conditioning, no tents with zippers (read sliding glass doors) no 5hr. drives from jburgh to safari lodge, air straight into lodge, great food, Transfers to and from airports all along the way, with meeters and greeters in between. All-inclusive on train and safari (yes, except not sure about tips, don't think they are included)Porterage everywhere, great spa services, not a long walk to dinner from the cabin.

Please tell us what other services we might need, and we would be glad to look into it. Our contact at K&D, Tiffany, has been a jewel. She is aptly named!

Just added some photos to the ofoto site from our Nov '03 trip to Cape Town. Hope they're useful in your planning.

Wow, what an amazing trip! Kudos to all those that participated in the planning sessions - the details that you've ironed out already this far ahead is amazing. I wish our budget and our vacation time woud allow us to join you but unfortunately, we're not at a stage of our life where something like this is possible quite yet. You guys will have to tell those of us that stay behind EVERYTHING that happens so at some point, we'll be able to use your research and experiences to plan our own trip. :)

It's OK, Sheri - we'll stay behind and console each other. "They can't be having THAT much fun, can they??"

Masaki

Count us in the consolation group, Sheri and Masaki. Wish we were able to join in on this fantastic trip. This looks to be quite a wonderful adventure and I can't wait to hear of each and every detail.

Olivia,

Just don't get beige and fit the stereotype of "mother of the groom!!" ;)

ROAR'ers - Pat and I are on board (on land??). In either case, we are already planning our Jungle Jim duds (Do we do dark or light khaki? What style hat works to cover a bad hair day? Can one wear an Australian cavalry hat in South Africa? Lordie, the questions are just endless, are they not?). Ken has promised to help us with our safari photos, so that our pictures of lions and giraffes don't look like photos of penguins and peacocks. The poor guy does not know what a challenge he has signed up to. Oh well, if it comes down to it, we will just borrow a few of his wonderful photos (a handy thing about digital photography, no?).

You're right, Marc. So what if this just sets retirement back a year or so? When I worry about such things, I just pull out my print-out of the marvelous LCT thread related to Work and Life Balance. That helps us justify taking some major pleasure now, rather than deferring things to the future which may not come to pass. And we also want to go on a photo safari before some of the gorgeous creatures become so endangered that we will have no chance of even glimpsing them.

Cheers, Fred

Hi Sheri and Masaki:

We will just have to hold this place up while they are all in Africa! Imagine how much havoc we can create while they are all off in the jungle!

Freddie: Can Katyusha stay here with us while you are gone? (That is Fred and Pat's new puppy)

Bill and Nancy - so glad you are joining in, too! We are looking forward to meeting all of you. Fred & Pat, we will definitely have to have a meeting of the former occupants of Voyager Suite 877. I'll tell you about the margarita party and the conga line ... Cheers, Anne

Thank you for keeping me in the style to which I've become accustomed!!

Ordinarily we purchase trip insurance when we make our first deposit. As you all know my husband is accident prone. Is that necessary with the ROAR trip? Some trip insurance companies say that you have to do it that way.

Bette - I am going to email you all the scoop on the insurance. In hindsight I will just post it all here. Lots of information others may need it. Well that did not work, wont post over in columns so impossible to read.

This is not a quick answer the most misunderstood issue on insurance is the "pre existing condition clause". Here is some of it in a nut shell. This compares TRAVELEX with Ker & Downey insurance which is TRAVEL MATE

Pre Existing condition explanation:
The only thing NOT covered is something that comes up in the defined number of days immediately prior to purchasing the insurance. Either a new condition that is diagnosed or an old condition that worsens and requires new treatment. So you could have a pre-existing condition such as heart or cancer problems. Have had lots and lots of treatment and still be on a drug for the condition or even under current doctors care.

As long as nothing changes with that condition in the designated number of days before buying the insurance you are covered.

NO RUSH TO BUY. Anytime between now and final payment date you can buy either coverage when you know within the defined number of days that the travelers ( and in case of Travelex family members) were doctor free (except routine visits) and had no health change.

Travelex Insurance: 90 day period. Travelers and ALL family members are included in the exclusion. Also you lose bankruptcy coverage when you don’t buy in the 21-day time frame. (The credit card company pays anyway)

Ker and Downey: 60 day period. ONLY travelers are included in the exclusion. Family members always covered.

I can handle purchasing both insurances for you and insurance premiums will be billed directly to your credit card.

Of course you can also purchase any insurance you wish on your own. Additions for air or additional optional excursions can be added to either policy and additional premiums paid.

Rates at 2004 levels if purchased in 2004 may change in 2005.

PREMIUMS FOR BOTH INSURANCE POLICIES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE

I also need to post that at this moment we are fully deposited for both camps. No room left.

However, I will take waitlists for Singita and I am sure that at some point some people may drop out. Inevitable as this is so far away. I will do the waitlist in the order I receive the requests.

If there are more bookings we can also use Royal Malewane. Remember Royal Malewane is NOT second choice. It was our FIRST choice BUT was too small and can only hold 20 people. If we end up taking space in the Royal Malewane camp too there may be some shifting around possible as I know many at Singita really wanted Royal Malewane. I will figure out how to handle that fairly if it becomes an issue.

Of course the rest of the trip we would all be together it would only be a split at the game parks. These game parks are too far away from each other to do anything together for this segment of the trip.

Ngaire,
Have we told you recently how wonderful you are??? :D
Sheri

A jewel she has been that is for sure..and believe me we interviewed alot of companies to handle the fine details in our search for the perfect camp and trains and hotels to maake the perfect vacation.
I must say that I am sad after all this planning that I have to work on my hubby to do this trip. At least there is time..lots of it.. hopefully there will still be a cabin ( with a must have plunge pool) left somewhere in Kruger the way everyone is jumping on this trip. It certainly is a once in a lifetime thing and with so many fun people what a good time is sure to be had by all. So many laughs to come esp from 4 of those going.
I know I have met them ( if only through emails).. ;)
man,
This jungle bride really wants to wear her safari helmet with the veil on it..
( an inside ROAR joke)..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Freddie:
[QB] ROAR'ers - In either case, we are already planning our Jungle Jim duds (Do we do dark or light khaki?

Africa 101 says you can only wear light khaki colors.. the animals do not like people in dark colors..
or maybe it's that they do like the dark colors -lunch! lol. :lct:

We went and got a book on South Africa last night. Now, this trip may be getting expensive.

Arlene wants to do a five day post safari white water rafting trip down the Zambezi. :ohmy:

Me, I want to go UP the Zambezi one day to four corners. Looks like we may need an extra week!

We need to set up a new forum for just ROAR! We have dozens of questions that the planners, or past visitors, might know the answers to. I would like to avoid pestering Ngaire and Tiffany with questions if there is an easier way to find the answer AND for the answer to get to all of us.

A good idea. You mean another whole thread like "CRUISE TALK" or "OFF TOPIC". I think that is a good idea. This way we can divide it between Capetown and Pre and POst and other subjects as they come up. HELP JOHN OR KAREN CAN YOU DO THAT FOR US PLEASE.

Just to add that if a group decides they want a particular post or pre cruise option we can go to Ker & Downey and get a quote. I dont think we should overload them with 10,000 different options but if a consensus is reached then we can get this priced and added to the whole package. It might be a good idea to come up with a list of possibilities and toss them around for a while and then go to her at one time to price them all with an "estimated" number of people participating. It can decrease the cost if there is a group. We have plenty of time to toss this around as she cant even book or actually price anything like this yet as 2006 pricing is not out it is too far ahead. We can get 2005 pricing though so will be able to compare the different options and pricing.

Then we will add the options that people want.

Same thing in Capetown. We only have a half day and the full winelands tour in the package. If you all decide you want to do something else we can add these as options and then people can do them or do their own thing - their pleasure.

Lots of time and lots to think about.

By the way for tours in Capetown we put mini vans in the bid rather than a big bus. It is usually preferable. The only other land transfers are really Hotel to Train to Airport. Not a lot of land transport in this package at all.

White water rafting? Now THAT sounds FUN!!!

Ngaire, yes, a new forum ala "OFF TOPIC," etc.

We are looking at that extra day in Capetown. Thinking maybe rent a car and go town to the Cape. Interested to hear what others might want to do.

Also, we have to decide on formality of dress we want for the train. Given the pictures on their site, we might look out of place.

Any interest in a kick off CHAT tonight or tomorrow night?