I was just looking at shore excursions for my Sept. cruise and was reminded of one thing about RSSC that drives me nuts--the misuse of apostrophes! I see it in their brochure, in the booklets they send about shore excursions, and all over their website. Please, folks, "its" does NOT have an apostrophe when used as a possessive. The apostrophe is used to make a contraction for "it is". Please proofread your copy!!!!
:mecry: <img border="0" alt="[c]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Glad you got that off your chest, Crystal, - stuff like that drives me nuts too - Joanna

It drives me nuts when I notice it, too, but don't let it drive you nuts when I do it here, please!

I don't know if any of you have noticed but many books now have more typos than usual. Believe it or not, it is done on purpose. Copyright protection. If a person takes a copyrighted piece of work to reproduce for resale illegally, many times they will run it through a spell check AND correct the typo. Hence - a violator. Olivia, correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I am hearing at library workshops.

Crystal, I dislike the misuse of me and I. Drives me crazy. You hear it on the TV all the time and people think it's correct.

Crystal,

I am definitely NOT an English major and make my share of grammar and spelling mistakes. But I agree with you about the misuse of it's and its. I see it everywhere. One of my best friends is a former English teacher and she goes ballistic when she sees that. She will take a pen out of her purse and correct any it's or its that are used improperly!! She will write on menus or books or even signs at events. It is so funny!!

Beth, especially the use of "myself" instead of me. Correct grammar almost starts to sound wrong sometimes.

Okay, what did I say or spell wrong here???? :)

Editing to say "What did I say or spell incorrectly here?"

Sorry...none of this bothers me nor do I even notice it. A simple mind has its advantages! (did I use it right?)

Does it bother anyone else that when people disappear everyone on the news now says they "went missing." Am I old fashion or has this usage just changed? That one drives me up a tree.

I'm with Marcie most of the time. Sometimes in my enthusiasm to say something via the board or an email, I just type and there is no way to spell or grammar check.

I do hate when people use improper language like "Axe me a question" and particularly when the person is on television and supposedly a role model for our kids, who already don't speak on a very educated level. I get saddened by the poor writing skills I see, even from executives.

My English lesson pet peeve is the use of "was" when it should be "were" (if I were going to go on a cruise).

Okay, with the usual disclaimer that a pet peeve is not a claim of perfection, mine is the misuse of pronouns in prepositional phrases. For example, it sounds like fingernails on a blackboard when someone says, "I made a reservation for my husband and I" when it should be "for my husband and me". You'd never say "I made a reservation for I" and all you have to do is think of it that way and you know the correct word to use. Like Cathy, I am especially annoyed when a journalist who should know better does this.

It doesn't bother me when the error is made in casual usage, such as an email or board posting. But when it's on something that SHOULD have been proofread, like a brochure or website (or a billboard--I've seen the error in larger than life lettering, too), something is truly wrong.

How about "your" and "you're"? Can't tell you how many times I have seen " Your invited. . . "

Gee, my very own "invited."

Frances

I think Crystal is correct (or is it right??) common usage fine and, as Kathy said, we all write quickly with no spell check etc - sometimes you get so excited to respond (for good and bad reasons) that you goof up...

Oh, dear Marsha, you have indeed hit upon one of my great obsessions - the use of the nominative form of pronouns in prepositional or other objective phrases. It really does drive I completely nuts!! I have become the scourge of my company with my habit of correcting people (almost all of whom have at least BA's) when they say such dreadful things as, "Are you going to golf with Tom and I?" My poor secretary has become so paranoid about misusing "I" and "me" that she constructs her sentences to avoid using either. Lordie, what a grammar nazi I have become, no? But standards are standards; and our gloriously rich language is suffering enough wounds already with the hideous influence of hip-hop, Valley-girl talk, and other such abominations.

Another use of the language which drives I cuckoo is the verbizing of nouns. This irritating habit is particularly prevalent among MBA types who seem unable to talk in anything other than B-school (for those of us not in the MBA crowd, that means Business School) jargon. I often think that such people should wear a little sign with a statement such as, "Beware, I speak a peculiar language consisting of silly. trendy jargon with no real meaning." (Yes, Marsha, I do admit that these comments are coming from someone in a profession - law - that has its own monumental problems regarding the use of incomprehensible jargon. But I humbly, as opposed to realistically, consider myself outside of that paradigm (another hideous word) of jargon usage.)

Karen & Mr. Kimmi (aka John) - Can you add a spell-check feature to this site so that we can at least spell correctly even if our sentences make no sense otherwise? If you can add a good-sense-check feature, that would be nice as well, although that feature is needed far more on the CC site than on this one.

Cheers from Pat and I - Fred

Is it Cheers from Pat and I - or Pat and me?? (just reread and it was my lesson from Marna Lou about me and I) How would you like to get a letter and the envelope is addressed "Dad and Joanna Mondae" followed by our address - kids pushing 40!!!!

My dear Fred, spell check is not going to help those of us who are grammatically challenged. "I,we,you,he,she,it,they"(one set, right?) and "me,you,us,him,her,it,them" (other set, if my brain is patterned correctly) are usually spelled correctly, it's the improper usage being bandied about here, and spell check ain't gonna pick up on those errors even if you axe it to!!! I don't seem to have no "good-sense" gene, neither (well, maybe you do). I learnt that on TV. My AOL e-mail is constantly correcting me for syntax, and there suggestions never look "right" to me.

I will agree with you on one thing. When I was in law school far too many years after college, I had to read about 10 pages to get what could have been reduced to 1. So I am a plain English practitioner, and my clients like it because they aren't made to feel stupid or intimidated. I try to make them know we both speak the same language.

I correct my adult children, especially my youngest daughter who is only 24 and subject to the Valley-speak thing. "me and my friends went..." But I would never correct a fellow employee because they are too old to change, and besides, if I get the gist of it and understand what they are saying, far be it from me to take on more children! On this board, I breeze right over incorrect grammar if I notice it, cause my fingers work faster than my brain and I contribute my share to the mistakes.

I am so looking foward to cruising with you guys. Love your sense(s) of humor~

Hilarious, Olivia! And Fred always makes me laugh out loud! Would love to be around when you two meet! :D

Oh, Kathy, Fred and I are going to meet, for sure! We are both on ROAR and MUSH. He scares me because he is so erudite, so I have to get him drunk one night, and then we will "talk". Next morning, I think I have to tell him to bite his tongue if I don't talk right in his presence, and not to talk behind my back if I do (not talk right)! Really, I am eager (AOL tells me "anxious" is not a good word) to meet Fred and Pat and all the others on this board! We're (we are) all just "hear" (another of my speed fingers problems) to have a good time cruisin!

Editing to say to any newbies (lurkers) out there, please forgive us for our inane threads. This is just a great group of people, most of whom have not cruised together but may be planning to...please jump in and offer your ultimate wisdom on any topic if you are inclined to do so! We love "new blood" to add to this community!

Fred, I am so glad to know we see eye to eye (or is it 'me to me'? :) ) on this critical issue!! My kids roll their eyes when I correct them so I try not to but it's difficult.

Now you're picking up his parentheses affinity!!

:D

AOL told me that about anxious and eager also; I think I've turned that feature off!

Joanna - If the mature (more or less) adult kids would do something as bizarre as adressing a letter to you as "Dad and Joana Mondae" (especially odd if your last name is "Smyth"), then the question of proper use of "Cheers from Pat and I" or "Cheers from Pat and me" (that is the right one, by the way, for those keeping score) is pretty much hopeless. For those adult kids, you should just consider yourselves lucky that they know your address to which to send holiday gifts. Take the gifts and don't worrry about how they address you. Lordie, what has happened to this generation?? Is it only baby-boomers who understand the basics of etiquette and grammar?

Olivia - I, too, try to speak to my clients (all of whom are employees of the same company for which I toil as in-house counsel) in words that are at least remotely comprehensible to the basically educated (or in the case of MBA's, jargonized) mind. Sometimes, they are shocked to hear me refer to money as "dough", not to mention my references to in-house affairs as "shagging in your own shack".

In any event, I don't understand the several comments from Marsha and Olivia which suggest that they are hesitant to correct their children in matters of grammar. Good grief, ladies, if you can't nag your kids, who can?? You don't want them going out into the world talking like rappers or Valley-girls, do you?! I personally have to deal with a sister and brother who (despite having degrees from decent universities - Montana and South Dakota - maybe that says something??) regularly drop such bombs of grammatical slop as, "Me and John went to see a movie." To say it makes I crazy is an understatement (which, as anyone familiar with my verbose postings knows, I am not likely to make).

Oh well, it may be hopeless to try to reform the masses who persist on abusing pronouns so. I will just have to be satisfied in driving my tiny staff of six mad with my particular obsession therewith (finally, the chance to use a stupid legal word).

Cheers, Fred

Well, I must take issue with the Valley Girl term used here, being a REAL Valley Girl, born right near the infamous Sherman Oaks Galleria ("Gag me with a spoon for real" to quote Moon Unit Zappa) and still living within a short driving distance to same (Hey, Claudia, they are saying bad things about our language skills!) Being a baby boomer and born in the 1950's heyday of "THE VALLEY", we did have the best schools ranked nationally in use of the English Language. It was the Valley Girls of the 1980's who decided to mangle the English Language with American Slang not discernable to those taught proper grammar skills.

Also, as a stepmother, who does not receive her due acknoledgement as a saint for putting up with his offspring from a prior committment, any card which would arrive at our residence with my name on it (even a card with poor grammer and for the wrong occasion including a card which might even be a sympathy card) would be most welcome. It's nice to be remembered as being alive now and then even though we are frequently ignored in person.

Gosh...I'd better start proof reading more carefully! If, in my enthusiasm to communicate, I sometimes misappropriate (and often misspell) nouns, pronouns and other devices of the English language I most humbly apologize. Please forgive me. ;)

In the meantime, I very much enjoy your discussion...I may even learn a few things here and there!

Fred observes: It's a matter of choosing your battles, Fred. Sometimes, to keep the lines of communication open it's necessary to focus on the content and not the form of the messages. I think if I made them feel uncomfortable they'd stop talking to me and I really don't want that. Besides, the older boy, who went to public school (his choice), was never taught grammar! Can you believe that? The younger one attended private school and has a better foundation in the basics.

Thaks for this thread! I am known as the grammer Nazi at my office and it's nice to know I'm not alone. Our in-house counsel did me the honor (or dishonor depending on your point of view) of complimenting me on various letters and documents, then telling me I write just like a lawyer!

Fred wrote:

Fred, don't you think that if there was a spell checker available, that I, the queen of the spelling impared, would install it?? :)

As Karen misspells "impaired" ... ;) Actually, I haven't noticed you misspelling anything, you know.

Crystal has hit one of my sore spots as well - I really dislike the misusage of "it's" and "its" as well. And I agree it's one thing to misuse grammar in casual conversation/board posts/emails ... but quite another in printed material! And the conversation between Freddie, Marsha, and Olivia had me laughing out loud - I've had my share of exposure to B-school types. "Strategizing" is not a word! Reminds me of the SNL sketches with Bush and "strategery".

Masaki

OMG how funny, I misspelled impaired! There is no hope for me. I am pretty good with with use of farther and further, though ;) but sometimes who and whom trips me up.

I just dragged myself back into my chair after falling out of it howling while reading this thread. Crystal, first you introduced one of my pet peeves, the mushrooming its/it's confusion, about which I try but don't succeed in being too patient. Then Fred, Olivia, Kathy and others, you had me rolling with your discourse about the decline of the English language soon to be followed, no doubt, by Western civilization itself. How refreshing to know someone else notices! I thought perhaps my being an editor in a former life had been the cause of a private curse whereby I was sentenced to edit signs and letters and language eternally. But, no, it's not a private curse! Yea! We're in this together.

The only bad thing is that now, after admitting my secret, I'll be tremendously embarassed next time I make a silly mistake in an LCT post. In fact, I'd better go back and reread ... and reread ... and reread ... what I just wrote .... :)

Someday I am going to sit down and figure out the difference between 'lay' and 'lie', and how to conjugate each. That is one aspect of grammar I have never gotten straight.

The lay/lie difference has always been a problem for me. It's been suggested that one reason I never had children was that I was lying when I should have been laying and laying when I should have been lying. :p

LOL Crystal!!

Crystal, LOL! I'm glad you posted that (I am lay/lie challenged), because now that I see you are taking this whole thing tongue in cheek, I am going to suggest you change your moniker, as it violates Judith's (JAM) rule posted way early about "was" and "were", does it not?

Grammarians, should that comma have been placed before or after the parentheses in the first two lines?

Crystal now that was funny!!!!! Joanna

I'm glad the was/were was not on Karen's grammar test--I'd have blown that one too (farther/further is another challenge for me).

I believe it is placed correctly. :)

Olivia,
The comma should be placed within the parentheses at the end; however, I, though not lay/lie challenged, need an education re: further/farther!

Crystal, that was really funny!

I agree with all the pet peeves, but no one has mentioned the ubiquitous improper use of noun/verb singular/plural, particularly in broadcast media. Everything is IT IS (it's) or other, regardless of 2 or 400. "There's 5000 in attendance," or much worse than that. Seems to be overtaking common speech as well.

I found Betty's comment re: books fascinating as I've noted misspellings,etc. in books for several years and have always blamed proofreaders!

Olivia, dearest - The comma was not the issue at all - rather, you should have put the phrase in quotation marks, rather than parentheses, even though you were more or less paraphrasing Crystal and not precisely quoting her. (Oh, hell, what are the rules for such things, anyway?? One of the great advantages of a board forum such as this is that we can be creative in our use of the language, its grammar, and such dreadful niceties as punctuation.) I personally do not follow the rule of putting the comma inside of either the parentheses or quotation marks, since I think that confuses the reader. My rule (and since I make up my own as I go along and therefore am comfortable with such rules) is that the use of grammar and punctuation should be absolutely oriented either towards making one's writing more easily comprehensible for the reader or more self-indulgent for the writer, whichever works out. (Sometimes both work out, which is a genuine bonus.) I know that lots of people hate parenthetical phrases; but I love 'em. I even speak in them, both at work and socially. I find that works better than making those horrible little finger "quote" signs when I talk.

Sue - I will not venture a guess as to whether your in-house counsel was complimenting you and insulting you when he/she/it (we must be inclusive) suggested that you, as a grammar nazi, write like a lawyer!! As both an in-house counsel and a grammar nazi (although I like to think of myself more as a grammar brown-shirt - preferring Italian food and opera to German), I am quite careful to not ever suggest that my colleagues share any traits with those of us in the shark profession.

Marsha - What a pity that your child's public school education was so deficient. I went to a public school (a very working/lower class one at that, since that was certainly the demographic into which my family was correctly identified) and managed to learn enough grammar to do the damage I am doing to this thread.

And finally (as everyone is sighing, "At last, he is dragging this post to an end."), the issue of lay/lie. I have found that the best way to deal with that problem is to remember that often a good lay is something to lie about, and aside from that, who gives a damn about the grammar aspect of it all?!

Cheers, Fred

Fred does not seem to be confused about lay and lie but it's no wonder the rest of us are. It's all explained here:

grammar lesson