Postings on another board prompted me to post this response here --

The criticism of RSSC not to make pax "whole" for independently arranged hotel, air, etc. on the Diamond cancellations has brought out the only conservative streak, narrow as it is, I have.

Think about it. It's not that passengers are choosing to TAKE insurance, they are choosing to SELF INSURE. They have calculated that the risks of cruise cancellation, in this case by the cruise line, is so small as not to justify paying the bucks for insurance. They CHOSE to SELF INSURE, not to take insurance and there is a world of difference in mind set.

After CHOOSING to self insure to save money, affected Diamond passengers who are disgruntled because they are out incidental costs (air,hotel. etc., deposits) should have no beef with RSSC for non-reimbursement for these out of pocket expenses.

None of this means that people shouldn't feel disappointed, perhaps even angry, over the cancellations. Nor does it mean that people should be content with RSSC's compensation (excluding incidentals) for the affected cruisers. Some will be happy and some won't be.

But when people who CHOOSE to self insure to save money and AFTER THE FACT want reimbursement from RSSC for incidental costs, my advice is to take responsibility for your own decision: you chose to self insure.

Where is the personal responsibility for people's decisions/actions? Passengers CHOOSE to self insure. Some people want the best of all worlds. They want the benefits of self insurance (lower cost) but expect when things go bad to have the benefits as if they paid for insurance. Go figure.

Bill

Well said, Bill!

Ditto.

If I do my own air arrangements to get to the ship, then I know I am taking a risk of not only cancellation (what if it were like the Navigator that has the fire and cancelled TWO cruises) but mechanical issues, weather related issues, (if I can't get there they won't hold the ship for me) so I have to make a back up plan. If that means I don't sail but lost my airfare, then that was my choice. What if they had to use an alternative port then who should pay? If I use my air, then I am on my own!

When we flew to Alaska there were some RSSC pax that were delayed from Florida because of weather issues and their connection was late. We were supposed to sail from Vancouver at 6. They held the ship until 3AM for those passengers. If you did your own air, you'd have had to get your own transportation to the ship. Same situation with Shore excursions. If you are late, the mass market lines leave no matter what. RSSC might wait a reasonable time but you'd better be prepared.

I am confused, I usually buy my own insurance and it asks for the total cost of the trip including air. If a cruise was cancelled, does this mean the air portion of the trip wouldn't be covered?

I have long felt that the moral value most lacking in the United States is the sense of self responsibility. Thank you.

Karen--

If you insure your entire vacation, your air, hotel deposits and your cruise are covered.

(oh boy! The NY Times crossword puzzle just arrived!)

Bill

Bill,
I do insure it all. I started using my own insurance after the Renaissance bankruptcy. Not that I feel Radisson would ever go bankrupt but I just want to cover all my bases.

Bill, I also agree with you. I would like to see ALL people take more responsibility for their own life. I don't think this is a "conservative" vs "liberal" label as you implied at the start.

Still, there is the issue of fairness. In the information age, people have a lot more information than before. Everyone knows what everyone else received as a "consolation" or "bribe." If one cancellation got $1000 and a "similar" cancellation got $700, those that received the latter might be more upset than they otherwise might be.

KarenS:

You might want to check to insure that your insurance DOES, if fact cover bankruptcy of a carrier. When Renaissance went "belly up" many discovered that their incurance did not cover this.

To all:

As I have a law degree and experience, and a marketing degree and experience, you can see how I would be really "on the fence" about Radisson's failure to make people whole for airline cancellation fees and the like. Ask me about this as a lawyer, and I'll tell you that Radisson would PROBABLY (we lawyers like that word) have no obligation to reimburse under their contract. But ask me as a marketing person, and I'll tell you that this is probably the best news Silversea has had in a long time!

That being said, it was my understanding from the "other board" that Ngaire said that Radisson would pay airline cancellation fees and the like. Am I wrong?

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Richard, I choose an insurance company that does insure against bankruptcy and I always check their exclusion list to make sure what I am insuring isn't on it. :)

I think, tho, that you run into a problem when you use miles for a "free" airline ticket and then cannot insure that ticket for its market value. Some airlines do let you redeposit the miles for a fee. But I don't know about ALL of them.

Well, considering where I live, airfares to ANYWHERE are expensive so I just go with the cruise air/transfers/etc. If they have it free, great, otherwise, I'd buy their airfare.

But I agree with Bill. Unfortunately, most people who do their own air, etc. don't realize they are self insuring.

Wouldn't think of booking a cruise, or any other large expense trip without ins. We used to use Travel Insured Int'l, but the company that RSSC uses is less expensive, even with the last increase, when you get to be an old fart like me. If RSSC did go belly up(not very likely) your RSSC ins would cover the loss, because it's not an RSSC company.

Well, this all leaves the "$64,000 question" unanswered. Is Radisson paying those canceled reimbursement for airline and hotel cancelation fees (as Ngaire seems to say on the "other board") or not?

Thanks,
Richard

I do agree with the above comments about personal responsibility. It's always easier to put the full responsibility on others rather than onto one's self.

It would be a very wise decision for Radisson to cover the costs you mentioned, Richard. I feel it would be a relatively small price to pay, considering if they do not, they will loose a substantial amount of revenue from many cruisers who will switch their loyalties to other lines. I am not saying that people will book other lines in droves. But, in my opinion, I think there will be many disgrunteled enough to do so, under these circumstances. I believe some major "damage control" is needed.

A good example is the interesting timing of all those "deals" Silversea is now offering. Is this the carrott that dangles in front of those displeased with Radisson right now?

Customer confidence has been shaken in many respects. A business lives or dies if that confidence has diminished.

However, Radisson does so many things right. You can't loose sight of that. Yet, people fixate on anything negative. Unfortunately, the sale of the Diamond and handling of the cancellations, has been a very big negative to those impacted.

Just my opinion, of course.

Yes, Radisson has set up a special desk to handle the reimbursement of airline cancellation fees and the fees to put miles back into people's account. People need to send in a letter with the proof of the cost of the fees. I was planning on doing that for everyone but you can do it directly as well.

RSSC Reservations
Attn: Diamond Help Desk
11340 Blondo Street
Omaha, NE 68164
Email: rsscdiamondcs@carlson.com
Fax: 402 501 5599

Karen, bankruptcy is covered by nearly all credit cards and in the Renaissance situation it was the credit cards that paid off. Everyone should always use a credit card to pay for a cruise or travel.

Our new member Debbie did some research and came up with a good insurer I should ask her to post her information. It has some options the others dont have. I dont have all the details but sounded good to me. She found the company under "insuremytrip".

That is great to hear Ngaire.

I would be very interested in hearing more about this insurer, please. We have yet to insure our Baltic trip and I need to take care of that important matter soon.

I use Insure my trip, too. I like how you can compare coverage and prices with other policies. I think the company that Debbie is referring to is CSA.

Ngaire:

Thanks for the clarification. From what I can see Radisson is doing what is fair under the circumstances.

As to the bankruptcy matter, We were actually booked on Renaissance for a cruise that "never was" due to bankruptcy. Our Amex reversed the charge.

And, it is possible that some of Silversea's specials DO have something to do with the Diamond cancelations. I recall That Radisson even offered a special discount specifically for all who had been canceled by Renaissance, so such a marketing strategy would be nothing new.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Just checked out the site. Pricing and coverage through CSA looks quite good. Will review it more before reaching a decision. Thanks!

Richard, as we all know, business is business. Silversea is merely seizing the moment.

A thought:
Although your airline tickets may be still good in that you might have to pay something to make changes ( usually $100)and they are usually good for a year so you don't always need to cover them..

CSA is the one we use ( although luckily have never had to find out How Good they are)

It is also the one that Betty wrote that she used in her evacuation fiasco on World Cruise .. so hope to hear more later from her on how they handle cost issues..would be interesting to hear.

Marc--

Not that it is important, but I disagree that people believe the concept of personal responsibility is equally embraced by both parties, at least from what I hear and read from one of the parties. However, this is not the right (pun intended) forum for this discussion.

On your second point, in this specific case, I don't know how the Diamond cancellation compensation compares to other "similar" cases. I think there may be enough differences in similar cases to make them all effectively different, to the cruise line as well as the passengers. For RSSC, The Diamond loss of profits and the total payout in compensation may be one of the largest "hits" any cruise line, certainly a small line, has taken on. After all, we're not talking about cancelling a single or even a back to back cruise for mechanical reasons, we're talking five/six? months of cruises affecting maybe 5,000 plus passengers. I guess that sometimes the individual compensation offered is affected by the total payout involved. Of course, this may be little of little solace to the passengers who may feel that RSSC should have done more.

Here's an interesting question. Would you compensate the passengers the same for a single cancelled two-for-one cruise as you would for a single 20% discounted and cancelled cruise, all other things being equal? I think this can be argued from different vantage points.

Lastly, I am concerned about the financial hit RSSC has taken. RSSC will soon have 14% (about) fewer berths and this situation will continue for the next two and a half years.

I also believe that Carlson was planning to do an equity carve out (if they weren't they should have been) and spin RSSC out as an IPO. If true, the loss of the Diamond could have an effect on the IPO, or at least its timing. I could just never accept the stated reasons for the name change to Regent Seven Seas Cruises given the expense of re-branding. However, if an IPO was in the offing, the name change would make alot of sense ...

Have a good day!

Bill

The main concern I had was that folks who were canceled be made whole for their out of pocket expenses. That's all I'd EXPECT, and be angry over if it were not done. Future cruise credits, especially those with time limits on them, are like those mail in rebates. Nice if you remember to use them, but a bit inconvenient to use.

Another concern is how Radisson has become the "incredible shrinking cruise line!" If plans stay as is, they'll be down to three ships in less than two years, after having built up to six at one time.Because they'll be left with the larger ships, berth availability won't be as much of a problem as itinerary availability ---- which I see as a big problem in the future for me.

Thanks,
Richard :) :)

Karen is right. We purchased a CSA Advantage policy.

Ngaire asked me to post about what we had purchased and why. Now keep in mind that our goals for insuring the next world cruise were a little different than the subject that started this discussion, being the loss of vacation by Diamond cruisers. We had to purchase this policy over the phone with www.insuremytrip.com because purchasing online had a limit of $100,000 total trip cost, or $50,000pp. The deciding factor in favor of this policy was the “return of premium waiver.” This is one of those things, like pre-existing condition waivers and financial default, that is only available if you purchase within 14 days of initial trip deposit, but it means that if we cancel for any reason, covered or not, that we can apply for the cancellation of the policy and the return of the premium paid for it. This was the only policy we found with this feature and CSA only offers it on the Advantage policy not their standard Silver and Gold policies (though it appears you can purchase the return of premium waiver as an add-on to some of their WebDirect policies). Since we were paying the 20% deposit and purchasing the policy so far in advance and the price of the insurance alone was in the $8000-$10,000 range, we felt that we needed to be able to recover the price of the policy as well should this trip not happen for any reason. However, I should note there are always compromises, I have elderly grandparents and parents not in the best of health and while RSSC’s policy would have covered our canceling the trip on account of their health with no pre-existing conditions exclusions, the CSA Advantage policy will not. It will only waive pre-existing condition exclusions for travelers. So, we will have to try to judge their conditions before we enter the penalty phase. It is likely that if the condition of one of them should deteriorate to the point that we needed to be with them, it would be from a condition that they have now and that would not be covered under the insurance policy we bought. (In fact, my reading of the policy is that CSA would not have to cover the Diamond cancellation situation either.)

Claudia is right that Betty (graywolf) posted that she had insured her WC through CSA as well. Claudia is also so right that no matter how much research you do before you purchase, you cannot know what you have until you try to use it. So, we too will be hoping that Betty will keep LCT updated as her claims shake out over the coming months.

Dougburns is, I believe though, in error. (Sorry, Doug!) Insurance purchased through RSSC (Berkely Care) will not cover the loss of a trip due to financial default of RSSC. And, in our case with the WC it would only cover up $50,000 and anything over would be paid in future cruise credits which would certainly preclude insuring the entire cost and would minimize the value of the policy for the 9% price tag.

Trip insurance is not cheap, there are a wide range of policies, people have different needs for different times and it is not an easy or quick task to make the right decision, and frankly for all the fine print you still do not know what you bought until you try to file a claim and that is when you find out all the rules and regs you really needed to know to judge the best policy for you anyway. There are also the issues of wiggle room, gray areas and good faith with both travel providers and insurance providers. These things all factor in I think to the area of personal responsibility. It is perhaps impossible to ever do anything but self-insure in the end, wittingly or not, because you cannot assess all the risks as Bill suggests. The average vacationer could not have known the odds of Radisson losing Diamond this summer. Nowhere on their website or in their brochures have I seen RSSC advertise the fact that they did not own Diamond or what the terms of their lease are. Whereas RSSC did know the odds of this happening, the average vacationer could not have known nor calculated their risks in the absence of all the necessary information. It has been my limited experience that all trips would be essentially the same, that the traveler is ultimately the one assuming all the risks no matter the variables of each vacation, or their propensity for personal responsibility.

I guess this has run on far too long, but I did promise Ngaire I would post about our insurance research. I had actually had the insure vs. self-insure discussion on the phone with her some weeks ago as we were working on booking our upcoming cruises, so I can understand why I came to her mind when she read this thread. Sorry for going on so long and hope this helps some.
:lct:

http://tinyurl.com/6f8mz

Check out this article from Conde Nast regarding everything else you need to know about travel insurance

Excellent information, Debbie. Thanks so much for taking the time to post this for us.

Thanks Debbie I appreciate you posting, you post very well by the way. Dont stop.

The refund of the premium is a wonderful option but the pre-existing waiver not applyint to relatives is an issue for many. There is no PERFECT product we all have to select what is right for us in the "insurance game".

Denise, right, I meant to direct part of my reply to you and forgot. I believe that you deposited your Baltics trip some time ago and the deciding feature for us with CSA (as well as with many other policies) is not available when purchased more than 14 days after the inital deposit (though this is only 7 days on some policies). Anyway, I did want to reply directly to you. We did find an interesting policy offered through American Express, but since it was only for trips of less than 31 days we did not pursue the fine print on it. It did have a provision for return of premium though. It may be of interest to you, they did not reply to our emails, but did answer some of our questions over the phone. Here is the website: https://www.globaltravelshield.com/

Thanks so much Debbie. I just looked at the site, which is very informative. I think CSA is a better choice, but I will need to look into it a bit further.

I appreciate the time you taken to respond so well to my inquiry! I am very insurance-challenged, despite my husband being an insurance claims adjuster!

Debbie,

Thank You so much for your very informative post.

Insurance is something that I have gotten for some trips but usually I don't as I find that my biggest risk is the health of my parents. My father has a heart condition that, although under control, none of the ins. cos.( including CSA) has been able to categorically state if it's a pre-existing condition or not.
I wish that an ins. co. was able to underwrite an insurance based on cancellation for other reasons, such as work related reasons. Actually, Princess cruises offered ( or at least they offered when we cruised with them in 1998) an insurance in the way of a credit to a future cruise if you needed to cancel for any reason at any time within the penalty period, other than the usual medical reasons. The amount was just slightly higher than the regular ins. and I gladly paid for it.

Bill - I agree with you as well.

Masaki

Debbie, Richard, Bill, Claudia, Ngaire, Denise, All; thanks for contributing to a very informative and educational post..r/wes