We all fly into Johannesburg then onto Cape Town or straight to Cape Town depending on our air and if we are going to Cape Town.(some may not) Just the same as before Andi.

Then we fly from Cape Town to Johannesburg - to Federal Air charter terminal, store the dreaded luggage again THIS TIME with luggage tags "STORE" or "GAME PARK" and off we fly to the game parks.

Same exactly as before.

Ngaire, Not exactly...no ROVOS!!

You worked out the luggage situation beautifully. Even without the tags,it was a snap...no hassel. The only angst was not knowing because we had never done it. Everything went very well.

Olivia and Ngaire, great plan!!! With the above "nomial" dates, we would arrange to meet everyone in Hermanus on 13 Sep.

A couple of concerns. Boulders will actually hold 24 by then due to three new rooms under construction. Also, I understand that the Madikwe properties have different levels of rooms. Will you have to have different pricing for different rooms? Will choices just be determined by time of booking (e.g., can last in be "forced" into suite because that is all that is available)?

Marc, Since we are planning on traveling so close to the beginning of September, have you noticed that the rates are much cheaper through the end of August. Any interest in moving the trip up a few weeks?

Wouldn't August be really, really cold? And doesn't Arlene have time constrictions in both August and September, that was one reason for looking at late September/early October?

I just noticed that the beginning dates were now Sept 13 and that good rates were up to August 31. The times seemed so close and the $$ not insignificant.

I think that was just a date that Ngaire threw out there, simply to have numbers to talk about.

Lets get the basic plan down first. Then we will fine tune the dates. I only put those dates there to clarify my thoughts. We will do a poll with the dates - based on the properties we decide on and the rates.

We hold off any choice in Cape Town until I look at the Victoria and Albert again and also one other hotel that is in the waterfront I have never seen The Commodore. I also want to look at the Cullin (new name now) again and see how it goes at the Radisson with TUSK. Stayed at the Radisson once but lets see how it is with a group. I will post an analysis of all four and base rates and we can vote.

Mark, all the suites at Mateya are the same. Those people staying at Mateya will have an upcharge for that property. It should be 10 of those from Singita.

At Madikwe Hills all the primary suites are the basically the same and then there is "Little Madikwe" This is like a family suite with two rooms and common lounge. They call it the Presidential Suite too, same thing. I did not get to see this suite when I was there it was occupied. When you take it separately you can have a private chef and take your land rover from a different spot. When we take the whole lodge it wont be done like that, no private chef or different area for the land rover. As I understand it the rooms are the same, it is just that there is a private lounge. This is similiar to what Al and Betty and Gerry and Peggy had at Ebony. I will determine later if there is an upcharge for that once I get all the pricing.

Perhaps the ROARERS should get first choice, they blazed the trail, they took the risk so should they have the first option. I dont want to make that decision 100% but that may be fair. I dont think all the ROARERS will be coming back. So there will be space for newcomers. Then it will be first come first served with deposit in hand.

As to Singita and extra rooms. I dont think we can worry about having the whole camp. It is nice but not absolutely necessary. It wont ruin the trip if there is another couple or two along. It may be more at Singita and not a full camp at Leopard Hills. We just let those chips fall where they may.

There is another lodge at Madikwe called Makeyane which is also very nice but a long way from Madikwe Hills and Mateya. I thought it was great until I saw Madikwe Hills and Mateya. HUGE glass windows looking over the river and big decks. No plunge pool. It is even cheaper as I remember. So if it did get to where those extra rooms at Singita were wanted we could put the last people to book at Makayane. That would be six people.

One thing is that this group will be "split up" we wont all be together all the time, like we were in Cape Town and Rovos Rail.

Not everyone is going to Cape Town, Hermanus will be limited to 22 at a time, different camps, so if it grew by another six to 40 it would not be too bad. That would only be five more than we had on ROAR. The only issue is getting through the airports and luggage on the transfer from Cape Town to Johannesburg to Federal. We know how that all works now and with the tags it should be much easier. That is an option if we have that many who want to come.

Ngaire, one thing to maybe keep in the back of your mind. If the timespan ran overlong, you and Ken might get Linda and Ron to switch out with you for part of it. Just thinking...

The weather isn't much different in August than in September - 50's at night, high 70's and 80's during the day. Pretty much the same as when we were there.

Ron and Linda would probably not be coming this time. I would not bring anyone else from B&K unless there is room. All my key staff will have been to South Africa - only one left is Debbie but I hope to get her down there before 2008.

I edited my post above, if you had already read it read it again.

May I suggest we just stick with first reply gets first choice? Speaking for myself, I don't want to be in a separate "class" from the rest of the group simply because we were part of the original ROAR group.

All of these properties are bound to be great, the suggested itinerary is wonderful and we'd be thrilled to be a part of another B&K Africa trip with lots of LCT friends or soon-to-be friends. Any of them would be fine with us.

As per usual, our restrictions revolve around the calendar. We can fit this in nicely in September (best is mid-to-late) but August and October are a no-go.

Cheers, Anne

As to dates: If the September time frame works better for everyone with their schedule, this far ahead and with as many people as I send to these camps they may extend us the lower August rates in September anyway. It is worth a try.

I have to run now as I am late for work but we will post a poll for RATES THE SAME do you want 8/15 to 8/31 9/1 to 9/15 9/15 to 9/30 10/1 to 10/15 time frame. Singita is the same year round.

Probably would have to do no later than mid to end September to have the hope of the lower rates. All the camps we are using change over 8/31 to higher rates.

Remember the weather in Cape Town at this time of year is WINTER. We wont have those lovely sunny days but if you want to see the whales then this is when you have to go. Later would be better for Cape Town.

Just read Annes post. Lets vote on all these issues - it makes so much sense, we all do try to do things as fairly as possible.

I will post a poll when I get a chance today with the new quesitons?

Roarers first or first come gets the booking.

Date selections.

If you can or cannot come on certain dates you might post like Anne did, so if people know everyones limitations it may help you decide what date you want to chose, sometimes it does not matter and you just pick something. Best to be informed.

Wow, I'm glad all the experienced people are all over this. This is totally confusing, but I voted yes for two! Thanks Marc and all for doing the work here......

Ngaire - Suggestion for "dates" poll: Use two questions.

1. Include a choice "any of the above" in the first question so you know who has date preferences & who doesn't.
2 Use the second question to ask folks for a second preference on dates. This should give a good profile as to what people prefer as of right now.

Thanks for taking this on! Cheers, Anne

Thanks Ngaire ;) Now I can add "Trailblazer" to my (meager) list of accomplishments

Suzie - I can think of so MANY more accomplishments than trailblazer ... ;) ;) ;)

Talked to Lee today. Hope to see her on Wed.

Cheers, Anne

Lee from Sydney and this board? How nice!

Yes! She arrived here a few days ago. We're both glued to the French Open so should have lots to talk about. Her son lives about an hour north of here.

Cheers, Anne (tennis slut this time of year)