Donna, you can write volumes about absentee caregiving. As you said, there are so many that have or currently are facing this very wrenching dilemma. Caregiving, under such circumstances, is terribly difficult and creates a lot of angst. However, you do what you must, as this is the hand that was dealt. Running into inefficiency only enhances the hardship.

Andi, I can't think of a better person to lean on and get information from than Donna, who is right in Tuscon. Through Donna's posts and my meeting with her at brunch a few weeks ago, I can truly say she is a beautiful and caring individual.

From what you've just posted, your mother needs to be in a far better facility and I wish you the best in making that happen.

I hardly know what else to say, except that I truly understand the dynamics of this all and wish I had the ability to help you and your mother through this difficult period.

Hugs to you, my friend!

Denise, what a nice thing to say. Thank you.

Hope things improve for you today, Andi. It would be nice to see your mother settled in a different facility before you have to fly back. We'll all send our good vibes for better things to happen this weekend.

Denise, I agree and will accept any advice Donna offers. Perhaps a great next occupation would be to provide support for absentee caregiving?

Actually, Andi there are support services for that here in Los Angeles. There is someone I refer clients to frequently that is local. In my area, we have a network of Senior Centers all with ombudsmen. There is an organization called ONE which is all about senior resources of all kinds from care to transportation to Meals on Wheels to housing; There is a therapist/social worker that is highly respected who deals with all the gerentology issues that families face. And there is a woman who does nothing but placement in various levels of care from independent living to nursing homes. And as a last resort there is also a govenment agency dealing with nothing but conservatorships for those who have no one to oversee those who need need care and have no advocate.

In Tuscon there is a very active chapter of my business group, The National Assn. of Women Business Owners, many whom I have met at National Conferences. I think it's called the Southern Arizona Chapter. (www.nawbo.org)

When we had to move Frank's mother from Denver, I had met a woman named Teri Dion whose business was called Elder Move. Since we could not oversee the the taking down of her house, we went through everything and marked it's intended destination. She had a connection to a moving company and we saved 35%. She packed it, sold it, shipped it, had consignment companies come in and take things - and she had several so that all the things we did not want to keep but still had value were taken care of. She even had a crew come in and clean. We paid her less than $1000 for her services and it was well worth it.
The National Association of Professional Organizers (www.napo.org) also has people who specialize in these kinds of things.

They are all out there. It's a matter of being connected and knowing how to ferret them out.

This is wonderful information. I was dreading this aspect. I will follow through with this when we are more certain of her wishes. I feel funny throwing out things of hers (that I think are garbage...like her former (3 dogs' former) toys that are 15 years old. She has been unable to part with these things.

Andi,

I still did a fair share of throwing away of jelly jars, rubberbands from the newspaper, cake tins, margarine containers, recycled juice bottles and towels that were still good, but, had seen their day. Clothes from 1960's that no longer fit. I have heard that that is quite common.

The first time I did it, I made a box of stuff to bring home and we put everything in storage until later. When it was certain that we were not setting up an apartment again for her we called a 2nd hand furniture company. Her entire home was only worth $2500 and my box of things I had reserved got taken and misplaced. They were not valuable -just small things I would have liked to have had. My first Mother in Law was my mother's best friend and I grew up in her house too so there were some sentimintal things.

The second Mother in Law's house was harder because I did not have the same attachment to what needed to stay and go and Frank did as much as I did and he made the decisions. I did the whole thing alone the first time because my ex was in grad school and couldn't leave to do this..

Yes, it's very hard to do all of this. When it was time to do it for my own mother, my sister was left the house and it's contents so we all helped her but it was local and my mother had passed away, so it was different again.

If you end up using a NAPO person to help, my friend is a founding member of the national board and knows many of the members so I would value her opinion as to who to contact in Tuscon.

Kathy: You have given great info! Yes, the "breaking up" of a house is so painful. When we got the call that the nursing home had space for them they had less than a week to move. That part was good as we told them that my brother and I would take 99% of contents of house - - a little white lie - we took the things we wanted and I had a bunch of furniture shipped to Florida for myself and my kids. I am sorry today I let her vast assortment of size 6 spectator pumps, her hats in hat boxes and her white kids gloves, in all lengths, go to Goodwill or similar - I should have brought them for my granddaughters dress up trunk at my house - But for months following this ordeal my Aunt Gertrude would quizz me on specifics - "did you or Danny take the blah blah?" I would answer that I had taken it - 3 months later she'd ask again I'd say "Danny took that" and she'd say "I thought you said YOU took it!?" or who took Mama's (my grandmother) tureen and I didn't remember a tureen "oh I took it" - - - exhausting and sad !! Joanna

White kid gloves....oh my...I thought my mother was the only person on earth(besides the leather shops on the Ponte Vecchio) who had a gazillion pair of white kid gloves. What memories this is all bringing back to me. And I do hurt for you, Andi. Such difficult times and with such limited resources for you. Please know that you and your family are in our thoughts...and we continue to send you love and hugs!

Andrea/Doug:

Our thoughts and prayers are still with you and yours.

Fortunately my Dad was on an executive committee of a retirement home in his younger years and he told us kids that when it was his time to go into a home, just do it, no matter what he said.

Well he said a lot when my two brothers and sister determined it was time and did Dad ever let us have it. Ouch! But it had to be.

Kathy: You and others have a never ending tide of worthwhile information flowing into this board but your note posted at 11:07a.m. was something special. Well done!

Cheers! Ray

Thanks, Ray.

I thnk when you are in the middle of this kind of thing, it helps when some one can lead you down a path they've been on. Even if the road is different it can spawn some thinking and give some comfort.

OK, some news both good and blah...

Doug's mother is doing VERY well. Her vascular operation reversed her memory issues and she is in good spirits.

My mother seems to be doing a bit better and is ok mentally again. She is also eating again.

Maggie and Toby like one another and are sleeping together.

My mom is supposedly in the best Nursing Facility in Tucson and I am NOT impressed. One nurse for 20 folks. "THey are at a skeleton crew on the weekend." This is just not acceptible.

Kathy, your info is great and I will contact you for more info in a week or so , when I get a better handle on her status.

I think we will have to keep her place for awhile, since we have no place for the furniture and we can't sell it yet. I have no Power of Attorney yet either. She promises that she will do this next Monday. One step at a time....

Thank you all for your support.

Keeping you and yours in our prayers and sending positive thoughts your way. After my father passed away 10yrs ago, we brought mom from AZ to live with us. The role reversal can be tough especially during illness. You are fortunate to have so many people who care about you. Hang in there!

Great news for your mother, Doug!

Andi, you've received great information from Kathy. I do hope that you are able to get your mother settled into a facility more well suited to her needs, with adequate nursing care, very soon.

Miriam, how right you are about the role reversal. Going through this with both my parents, living 3000 miles from them, was certainly the most difficult period in my life.

Thank you, Denise.

But I am lucky that my father is still alive and can deal with it all. I have very little to do except to call, visit and act up beat.

Andi, however, as you know is an only child and her Dad passed away a while ago. Her Mom is totally alone. It is all falling on Andi. This is far off the stress chart.
Needless to add, her Mom is not making anything any easier. Of course, the doctors aren't either.
But as I read the posts uptopic, it seems that her Mom is no different from anyone else. No one wants to go into assisted living.

Andi tells me that the facility where her Mom is in now has an awful staff to patient ratio (This ain't a Raddison cruise by any gauge!).

This is all extremely hard on Andi. I hear it in her voice when we talk on the phone. I am so glad that she will be coming home, but I know how being so many miles away will eat at her.
All this is a rather long way to thank each and everyone of you for the kind words and support. It means a lot to us and proves how amazing this board is.

Thank you, Doug

Doug: I know you are anxious to have Andi home and, yes, the distance will be difficult but things have a way of working out....and always remember you are doing what is best for your mother in law despite the "upset" it causes - it just isn't easy - Joanna

I can't believe the horrible food she is served and the 10 to 1 staff to patient ratio...and this is the top facility. It is clean. She is also kept as a prisoner in her room because of her C-diff. I couldn't imagine being alone in my room without being allowed out for 2-4 weeks. I would crack up.

I am so depressed just going there. She is feeling better, though, so this is progress. She also appears to be more open to coming to NY for the summer.

You all have been wonderful. Thank you ever so much for your support and great advice.

Andi,
We continue to keep you in our thoughts and prayers, as you go through these very difficult times.

Betty

Andi, sorry the facility is not what you wanted or expected. I'm glad your mom is feeling better and sounds like you have a glimmer of hope for her returning to NY. I have noticed that for the elderly, change comes one baby step at a time. So, concentrate on a summer visit for your mom and perhaps it will turn into the complete move that you hope for. And, after the bad food and service, your mom may jump at the chance to be near her lovely family.

I hope you will have time to de-stress this week. Take care of yourself!

Alan and I will keep you and your mom in your thoughts and prayers.

Very well said, Donna. Alan and I echo these very words.

Take care, Andi. Hold in your heart that you are doing the best for your Mother and hopefully, everything will take a turn for the better.

I'm home. My mother says she is feeling better. I priced the Atria assisted living in NY versus AZ and they are $2500 more per month for much less...$6500 for a 240 square foot apartment. This is an F category on the PG. You get a 2BR, 2 Bath for $4500 in Tucson.

Andi, OY!

Big bucks in both cases! My only experience was when my mother's Dr. advised her to pursue asst'd living because of congestive heart failure etc. She was then living here in a retirement home, ?$1400 mo.; asst'd living when we investigated, $2600. mo.; this was in '96. Small quarters by comparison and most of the residents seemed to be Alzheimers' or related, which she totally rejected. Jan. '97, she had a stroke, after 2 weeks in hospital, transferred to Rehab facility, and 2 weeks later, she died. She was a month shy of her 90th birthday, so older than your mother, I'm sure. The very frustrating part to me, was the rehab facility was certainly not ideal, but BETTER than the hospital, where she was on a NEURO unit, but they seemed to ignore the fact that you don't eat because your swallowing mechanism is affected, and that was the first thing noted at the the rehab facility and therapy was provided.

Forgive me for venting, but the care at all these places is certainly wanting! I share your frustration and can't imagine doing it long distance.

? for Doug: did your Dad master the washing machine? My DH, electrical engineer, has never mastered the washer or dishwasher!

Please keep us posted and know that I empathize!

:hug:

I think he probably mastered it. He looks like a clean old man. (Remember the Beatles' Hard Days Night?)

I just got a call from the nursing home at midnight EST from my mother. She wants drugs for her back pain and they won't give it to her. I don't feel competent to say yes or no. She got herself into the hospital by taking too many meds for her back pain. I really cannot deal with this and go to work the next day. Now I am wide awake with an important meeting tomorrow.

I also realized that in my rush that I left all MY meds and makeup (aagh) in my mother's bathroom at her house.

I really enjoyed meeting Donna and look so forward to going on MUSH with Alan and Donna, if we don't see them sooner.

I want to tell you all that you are all terrific.

I find it amazing that so many of us have so much in common....cruising, children, pets, parent issues...and everyone we have met is so nice.

Andi, glad to hear that your mom sounds like she's doing better overall. We'll keep both of you in our thoughts. Hope you got some rest before your big meeting!

There are so many levels of Senior care. There is assisted living because you cannot take full care of yourself. There is some way of measuring that you cannot do it by ability to: Dress self; shower and bathe self; feed self; using the bathroom officially called "toileting", and there is one or two more that I cannot remember; Rehab is somewhere between the hosptial and home - formerly the convelesent hospital or skilled nursing facility; Retirement Hotel is independent living, but some have caretakers so it's pre-assisted living; There are group homes, where 4 to 6 senior share a home - sometimes they are for dementia patients or they might have a common issue - all stroke patients for example.

Most just offer a single bedroom and private bath or some shared; In Los Angeles, the Retirement Hotel option can run $1500 for a shared room with prepped meals to $7500 and up for the most deluxe with care and all the other bells and whistles. Sort of like the ship - Category H and higher! There is one place in Santa Barbara that is a condo on many acres. There is a multi year waiting list. The cost is in the millions to buy there and then each place has caretakers. Many of them are empty because people who are not ready to move there are buying then keeping them empty and available.

We pay $2300 for a single room about 250 Square feet including a huge walk in closet (8x10 for the closet), all meals (terrible food - as cheap as it gets, some transportation we don't take advantage of, 25 cent bingo and trivia and chair aerobics every day, and then we pay someone separately to come help Frank's Mom take a bath and do her laundry (she only needs someone there to see that she doesn't fall - she's not very steady at all). What's very sad is that they *( the workers and staff) are not very respectful of the residents. All their complaints about food and anything else is ignored. The residents all complain even at the best of these places. We recently visited one of the top tier places to see what it was about and the food looked wonderful, it was clean and beautifully decorated. And you could hear every one complaining at the other tables. It's all there is sometimes for entertainment.

I don't have kids or nieces and nephews who will take care of me when I get there. Make sure you have Long Term Care insurance so that the financial part is all taken care of. One less burden to worry about.

Great information, Kathy. My in-laws live on a Presbyterian sponsored 3-tier campus (higher end money-wise). The independent portion is fine but once they require the next step or the nusring care then there are complaints just like any other of these facilities and you pay and pay! Leaves alot to be desired. This place decided to extensively re-model all of the public spaces requiring changes in food service, etc. It has been so hard on the residents. I don't think management thought about the effects on them.

My in-laws did their children a favor by deciding for themselves that it was time to sell their home and move into this type of facility. They have had several happy years living there with little worries for their children. But, now that health has failed, worries are more.

Even though we have children, Alan and I are going to make our own plans (just like his parents). Not to sound cynical but you never know when the time comes and we would rather depend on our ownselves.

Andi, over-medication is such a problem with seniors. I've watched it happen to several of my relatives. It's a combination of "forgetting" what they are taking and/or the "a little bit more" will do the trick. We have several close to us that we are concerned about not waking up due to too much medication at night.

I'm happy you made it home and that Doug has clean clothes. Can your mom's housekeeper mail your makeup/meds to you? Hope so. Don't fall asleep in your meeting today!

It seems many of us have experienced first hand some of the things Andi is struggling with right now.

I've been reading every word because so much of it rings true to my Mother's experiences. One bit of information that we discovered, because my father was a veteran and my mother had early Alzheimer care issues, she was eligible for a supplemental payment. It helped bridge the gap between her pension, SS and the cost of her 2nd level assisted living expenses.

When she became desperately ill from her radiation and chemo, my sister and I decided to fund some private nursing for her to get her through the treatments. Unfortunately, she crashed a day later and was admitted to the hospital.

It's been 8 weeks of recovery, but she finally returns to her apartment tomorrow. At this point she's not complaining about anything, but still refuses most of the food. We take her special treats, and out to eat as often as possible. If we weren't here, I'd probably send her care packages just like she did for me when I was in college. We often joke about the payback nature of parents and children. Now I'm the bossy one! Luckily Mom still has her sense of humor and can laugh at me when I get a little overbearing!

I guess I'm writing all of this because I know how dark you can feel in the middle of a health crisis and how frustrating it is when there seems to be so little good news.

Andi, I hope you'll come through to better news and options. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right solution.

Donna and Alan, you are so wise to start making your own arrangements. I really need to do the same thing, but I've already reassured my only child that when I'm a burden to her, she has my permission to help me find the best place to be. God, I hope I don't have to move to NJ!

Margo, so far our "planning for the future" is all talk. But, we do have good intentions. I'm glad your mother's situation has improved. I think it's so helpful when we can share ideas and experiences on topics such as this. And about moving to NJ, just live long enough that your daugher will be ready to retire to FLA and will come to you instead!

Kathy: Yes, my Dad did follow directions exactly & ended up with clean unshrunk clothes. He was very concerned about his all wool socks, but all came out well in the wash (groan.).

Donna: While I need my bride home for so many reasons, doing my laundry isn't one of them. (grin)
When we were 1st married, I played dumb & she did all the laundry. Until one day she was talking with my Mom. My Mother (Lord bless her) promptly told Andi that I not only knew how to do a laundry, but also that I wasn't too bad with an iron! I think that it was a point of pride with my Mom since she was the one who taught me.

BTW, I heard on the radio (this is true) that there is a new washing machine that addresses the problem of women doing the laundry with out the help from the men. It is fingerprint activated. You can't use it twice in a row with the sane fingerprint.
The idea is that he & she must take turns.
Of course, it doesnot take into consideration the probabality of one running a light AND dark load. (see I really do know this laundry stuff...grin).

Doug

Doug: I hope to meet you and Andi on a cruise one of these years - another guy who can iron - I am impressed!!!! Joanna

I have seen him do many a wash...I have never seen him iron. But, I have been away for 2 years.

He started to do his wash after his mom gave away his secret and I dyed all of his underwear pink.

Now, they are white.

I have seen him do many a wash...I have never seen him iron. But, I have been away for 2 years.

He started to do his wash after his mom gave away his secret and I dyed all of his underwear pink and I shrunk his favorite sweatshirts to fit me.

He did it for self preservation.

BTW,My mother seemed better on the phone today.

Joanna, are you on MUSH or ROAR?

Doug, I'm really proud of your dad and glad your mom is making progress. I also taught my boys many domestic skills.

Andi, hope you get encouraging news.

Andi: We are on MUSH - Joanna

Great, Joanna, Domestic Boy and I look forward to meeting you next year...our 30th anniversary!

Hi!
"Domestic Boy" here.... kinda sounda like a really lame super hero, doesn't it? "Oh evil doer! I crush you and do your laundry at the same time to make our city safe! Do you take starch?"

In any case, I forget which Radisson cruise it was, but there I was in the laundry room with a hot iron in my hand and a woman walked in and looked at me with awe & amazement! She was totally taken aback that a man was ironing! And she said so! When she came back, another fellow was using the other ironing board, she was beside her self. It was as if 2 such creatures could never exist on the planet! I sort of felt sort sorry for whatever hell her poor husband was in for that night!
Sort of, they poured me a nice glass of wine at dinner & I forgot all about the poor guy.

Mothers: teach your children well (ok, grandmothers, too.)

Doug

Oh so now I get it Doug - Tony loves hanging out in the laundry room ironing and comes back so full of himself - tells me compliments he has been given - I give him short shift - poor guy all he hears at home is "if you want to wear it iron it or take it the cleaners" never never "oh you amazing guy ironer" - Joanna

That is too funny....OK, how many guys hang out in the cruise ship laundry room for an ego boost?!!

I never knew.... :rolleyes:

They'll never admit it -

And a chance to flirt without getting the ol' chops busted...think about it, kinda like taking the kid/grandkid to the park! Guy with an iron is a total babe magnet.

Robert you are absolutely correct! On every cruise women are saying "Oh hi Tony" or waving to him - I have never met them - that's right - they connected in the LAUNDRY ROOM - however, my dislike of laundry and ironing is much greater than my interest in curbing "iron man" - Joanna