While we are talking about bathrooms here....

I'm am just a middle class, middle aged female. I grew up with college educated parents who grew up in the depression. They were frugal and it rubbed off on me. Although the houses I have lived in have had 2 or more bathrooms, they usually have combo shower/tubs. My current house and the last house I owned have separate shower and tubs (jacuzi) in the master bath. It has never been a deal maker or deal breaker when buying a house (I've owned 6 - 5 while I was single). I understand the Voyager has separate showers and tubs. Fine, upscale, hurray!!!

But it seems to me, that rather than having separate shower and tub wouldn't it be more practical and useful to have 2 sinks in the bathroom with a combo shower/tub? Don't you use a sink more often than a tub or shower?

I must be missing something here. I admit, I don't normally stay at luxury properties and a few times I have stayed places where there was a sink in the bathroom and one on the outside. I guess Ted and I are spoiled by our 2 sinks and huge vanity at home. I guess I am trying to say that I don't understand enough about luxury travel and I need to be enlightened. Why the separate shower and tub but only one sink?

You have a good point Colleen. I too could easily do with a combo tub/shower (this is what we have in our master bath now) BUT I'd rather have the extra sq. ft. in the living area of the cabin (got so spoiled with the C Penthouse on MINT!) We only have 1 sink in our master bath now and it works fine for us...guess it's all what we're use to!

Remember that the combo Tub/Shower is very difficult for many people to climb in and out. It has been a real problem on the Mariner because on longer voyages that attracts older people they cannot navigate stepping into that tub. It can also be dangerous doing that on a moving ship if you have limited mobility. Hence the need - personally I think it is a good move to change those cabins on the mariner now people have a choice.

I'm still missing something here, if you have a problem climbing in and out of a tub, wouldn't you have a problem STANDING in a shower? Wouldn't you need a "sitting" tub. One of those things that sit across a tub to make a seat? I've been lucky in that as my family ages they age well so I haven't seen a lot of people who are well enough travel but not well enough to step into a tub. It was just a thought about space usage.

That walk-in shower on the Mariner sounds interesting to me, tho.

Actually Colleen, getting in and out of a tub is when someone with stiff joints is most vunerable. You're trying to balance on one foot on a slippery surface. Its also a problem for older people like my mother who have osteroporosis and have to be very careful not to fall.

Colleen, we were on the Mariner in June 2001. While it was not a problem for us at that time I can well imagine that particular tub design would be a problem for me when the arthritis in my knee gets worse. I remember it as quite a high step up. I've used a walk in shower at home for years but have used tub shower combinations at many places while traveling and the one on the Mariner was higher than any other I remember. Factor in that you're on a moving ship and it can get scary.

We were on the Mariner in April 2004 and the shower tub combo wasn't a big problem for us but our friends the husband is 6'7" and the combo is to short for him he had to shower bending over.We are leaving for a trip on the voyager on Sat and we are hoping that he will be able to stand up taking a shower this trip.

Penny, have a great trip! Where are you going? You must be getting on when Marc & Arlene get off. Share any scoop you hear about the World Cruise (BAIL)...not long now!

We are leaving from Ft Lauderdale, Progresso, Cozumel, Grand Cayman & Key West. We are so excited. Spending 2 days prior in Ft Lauderdale.
We sail on the 6th.
Penny

Showers on the Voyager are wonderful - it is nice to have the separate free standing shower..Tony remarked on the Mariner how much he missed the Voyager shower - Joanna

Colleen:

Here is the problem they are dealing with on the Mariner tub/shower combos. And I took a tape measurer on the Mariner, and measured all this. First of all, the ceilings in the suites are only 7' high, not 8' or more as in your home. Then, there is, for some reason, a 5" step-up to the floor of the bathroom. Then, the tub is sitting on an additional 5" raised area. So when one stands in the tub to take a shower, the headroom is only 6'2". Clearly, if you are taller than that, there's a problem. But even at my puny 5' 9" height, I kept banging my hand on the ceiling while washing my hair. Every ship out there we've been on had the same 7' ceiling height in the cabins or suites. And some had tup/shower combos. But they didn't have the 5" step up into the bathroom, plus the added 5" rise to the bottom of the tub. So they benefited from a full 7' headroom when one stands in the tub to shower.

In my opinion, as one who has done some residential design, the problem happened when the ship was designed when the designer raised the bathroom floor and then raised the tub above that, leaving too little headroom. A better solution that would please more people than swapping the tub for a shower would be to lower the bathroom floor to "suite level" and also to lower the base of the tub/shower to "suite level", which would allow sufficient headroom and retain the tub.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Richard: Interesting info and makes sense but what I really want to know is what do you do for relaxation??? Joanna

That's our Richard..."detail man"...sounds sort of like a Superhero...Richard, you know we are only teasing!! :D

Richard, that is fascinating. I was aware of stepping up into the bathrooms, but didn't look up to realize that the ceiling didn't step up with me.

In that bigger suite on Mariner, Mark had a very nice separate shower in the master bathroom, but I still had the step-up, skinny tub. It was difficult to get in and out of, with the extra pounds I've acquired since the last time we were on that ship.

Richard, if the tub in the cabin above you is also "stepping up", how do you explain this 10" difference? Are the showers not stacked over each other? I'm only 5'6", but I have a very tall daughter 5'11". She has never complained, but she doesn't complain much about anything when I am taking her on a cruise and paying for it. And then, she likes to soak in the tub.

jhp:

Again, on the Mariner, the entire bathroom floor is raised 5" above the level of the suite floor. Since the suite has a 7' tall ceiling, the entire bathroom floor has a 6' 7" tall ceiling. Then, for some reason, the tub/shower combo is placed on an area that is raised another 5" (for a total of 10" above the suite floor), making the ceiling 6'2" tall for someone standing in the tub. (I measured.) Now I am referring to suites with unmodified bathrooms, as I have no personal viewings of the modifications.

I have seen bathrooms in ships of other lines with tub/shower combinations where the bathroom floor was not raised above that in the suite, and the tub/shower combination sat right on the bathroom floor. Except for the thickness of the material on the bottom of the tub, this would give the user the full 7' ceiling height head room.

I suggested that the error was raising the level of the bottom of the tub a total of 10" above the main floor of the suite, when you only have a 7'ceiling height to work with there I see no engineering reason for raising the whole bathroom floor 5", and certainly see no reason for the tub to be set on an area that is raised another 5", for a total of 10" lost of the 7'ceiling height, and giving only 6'2" headroom while standing in the tub.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Is the floor raised for the plumbing, maybe? Can't fathom any other reason they would do this but I am a far cry from a ship designer.

Richard, I think you missed my point. If every bathroom sits one on top of another, then every tub above it has the extra inches above where the the tub is set higher. (Therefore zero loss in height) Please explain. On your theory, each level you go up in the ship we would be losing inches, and at the top decks, the tub would be about 3.5 ft high!

Olivia: You are one smart woman - glad you are my friend! As far as the bathrooms go - As my friend Arlene would say "Oy Vay" - Joanna

I apologize to anyone who is bored by this thread (so just ignore it from now on), but I am, while not mathmatically challenged, do not understand Richard's logic. I wish someone (we have so many experts on this board who know EVERYTHING) would put it in perspective to me. Arlene, and Joanna, Oy Vay, whatever that means! (Most of my dates in college were with Jewish guys, but it was a long time ago!)

i think what robert must mean is that those extra inches in each bathroom are to house the plumbing? which would make sense.

Olivia: My Oy Vay was not for you sweetie!!!!! Come on do not make me expalin it to you!!

I like Oy Vay's! They sound good to me! But if not entitled, I can deal with it!

I say take all the marble out of the bathrooms. That way the ships would weigh less, use less fuel allowing for cheaper cruising.

And somebody please take Richard's tape measure. away

Chip, you are too funny.
Olivia and JoAnna, The floors and ceilings are all level on each deck. Then the bathrooms are added. There is a 5" step (assume for plumbing waste pipes). The ceilings are all the same height too. The rooms are all prefabricated boxes joined together on a spine of metal. Think like a trailer/mobile home might be.

ceiling -----> _________________________________

Tub 5" Above __________________
Bathroom Floor5" above _________________________
Cabin Room_______________________________________

ceiling -----> _________________________________

Tub 5" Above __________________
Bathroom Floor _________________________
Cabin Room_______________________________________

ceiling -----> _________________________________

Tub 5" Above __________________
Bathroom Floor _________________________
Cabin Room_______________________________________

Another problem in the Mariner shower is when you have a size 13 foot and try to stand sideways. The tub wull not fit my foot as it curves at around a size 10.

John

Good Lord, what did I start while looking for a second sink!!!

I can attest to the fact that it is difficult and scary to get into the tub of the Mariner. I was on it a month before I had my left hip joint replaced this summer. It was really hard for me to bend my left hip enough to get into or out of the tub, but I managed okay. But it was also sort of scary - I was so afraid I would slip and fall.

I would prefer the walk in shower. We have one at home and I love it.

Can't wait to have one on the Voyager next summer.

Ginny

Crazy....

bringing measuring tapes on cruises?
trying to fit Size 13 feet in to the tub?
Removing marble for more ceiling room?

Solution: Bring "Todd and his famous cosmos" and a sponge for bathing and all your cares will go away!

now if anything deserves an oy vey, this does! :rolleyes:

and olivia, you danced with the oy vey king, so you can be an honorary MOT too.

Oh- Colleen going back to the original thread topic.

We remodelled our Master bath this year. We had a separate tub and shower. The Tub was huge. We shared one sink. We closed off the 2nd doorway to the bathroom, tore out the big soaking tub that used all 50 gallons of our hot water heater, and put in a walk in shower and TWO SINKS. The shower has multiple showerheads, one on a slide bar so the head goes up and downm just like the Mariner's and massages. And we have a bench at the front so you can sit and shower and then a bench at the back so you can sit and dry off or put your feet up to dry them. Nothing like taking a shower in our master bath now.

Olivia - I think Kathy's drawing explains it very well. Each floor is 7 feet in height and the bathrooms don't offset each other. It's just that the floor of the bathroom is 10 inches higher than the floor of the suite (as others have mentioned, they probably have plumbing/drains running underneath in the 10 inch crawl space). The height of the bathroom, however, is level with the height of the suite and thus the headroom in the bathroom is 6'2" (7' minus 10").

Kathy - your shower sounds awesome!

Masaki

One other point about shower stalls. I have bad discs and climbing into a tub for me takes me out of my neutral pelvic position, causing me back and calf pain. We have a nice big shower in our master bathroom as well as a really nice jacuzzi (which came standard from the builder), but I only use the shower.
On the Navigator, it was bad enough watching the water go this way and that way. I don't even want to think about what that water would have looked like in a bigger area!

Masaki,

When you and Amanda visit with our new nephew or niece, you are welcome to use it!

Oh, Kathy, sounds like my kind of shower.

Yep Kathy - That is one nice shower!!!
I'll be right there.
(We'll be right there?)

Aw heck Colleen...leave the sinks out completely, and have side by side toilets..I mean, how much more romantic does it get? JUST kidding!!
<img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" /> :eek: <img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" /> :eek:

Gil, nice save!!

Kathy, When can I reserve your shower???

Sheri,

I know you were being funny, but I have observed over the years , visiting many "Showhouses," that the Master bathrooms, which can be of humongous proportions, and as large as my whole house, have only ONE toilet!! This has never made sense to me!! Anyone concur?

I have walked into a lot of "Show Houses", where the master bathroom was larger than the master bedroom; some of them had platforms that looked big enough for an orchestra (may have been for green plants, but were so high nobody could reach them to water). I guess they were going to have Grand Balls in there, hoop skirts and all. Tons of wasted space, in my opinion.

I'm not cleaning any more than one toilet per bathroom. As a matter of fact, my homes before this were either 2 baths or 2 1/2 baths and I was single when I bought them.

When Ted and I found this house with 3 1/2 baths I made a rule before we ever moved in. We use the bath in the master and the one in the bedroom that we use as an office (other side of house). The other 2 baths are for guests. Period. No exceptions. I sure as heck did not want to be cleaning 4 toilets on a regular basis.

:D I see SOMEBODY caught it! ;)

Just as a note when Ken and I built out house the main thing we wanted was two toilets in the bathroom. We have his and hers. We still joke 9 years later that we can "do our thing" at the exact same time without leaving our bathroom.

Mine is very feminine with a oval top no squared off corners anywhere and his is a big squared off masculine model. People always comment on this they can tell which is which. Seriously we have loved having both it is very practical.

When Ken buys ugly items on trips (which those of you who have traveled with us have witnessed) the jug at the Monastery with Suzanne & Olivia for instance. Then I always say they will look great in his toilet. I looked in there the other day and he as a tiki from the Marquesas, the "jug" and a few other items on the floor. If we ever build again I think I will put shelves in his toilet for his treasures.

So you and Ken have side by side toilets? Well, guess you can throw privacy out the window.

I've never seen this before (though I've seen 2 toilets in one bathroom but each was in it's own little closet/alcove, not side by side.

I would think you'd know the answer to that one! :mad: :b:

and it didn't save anything!!!!

Just off the Mariner yesterday so am not up on what you've been discussing about the tubs, but from the Capt's mouth to my ear he said bathtubs were going during drydock. Seems like a mammouth task to me in ten days time but that's what he said. (Maybe it was all that red wine he likes to drink!) Anyway, we're gtlad to be back but the ship is still rocking and I'm hungry!

Did I mention what a great time we had with all you Minters? Clyde is still talking about it and wants to know when the next one is??

It's nice to see you on the board again, Jean, even if it means your cruise is over. Give our love to Clyde.

MarnaLou

jhp and all:

Common, guys! I took the tape measurer on my Mariner cruise only because there were then MANY posts on CC complaining about lack of headroom in the shower. I was curious about just how much of a problem this was. So I took a very small tape and found out. Then I reported "6'2" of headroom" to help prospective cruisers on this ship know in advance whether this would be a problem for them.

jhp:

Although the bathroom floors on the Mariner have those two 5" rises above suite floor level to tub floor level, the ceilings in the baths are the same height as the rest of the suite, and do not rise. Thus, the total 10" rise to tub floor level subtracts from the suite ceiling height of 7', giving 6'2".

Robert:

I'm not a ship designer either, but have done some residential design. In residential standards, as long as there is an open gap of at least 4" between upper floor and lower ceiling, the 5" rises should not have been needed for plumbing purposes. And, I've been on ships of other lines with similar layout with no rises in the bathroom floor. Jan Novak, a Hotel Director on other RSSC ships told me that the Mariner baths were mot designed that way, and the builder fouled up! Beyond this, anybody's guess is as good as mine!

Thanks,
Richard :) ;) :)

Glad you are back Jean and hope you had great time on remaining cruise - Joanna

Kathy, we'll gladly take you up on your offer to use your bath. It sounds wonderful.

Welcome back Jean and Clyde!

Actually, I just wanted to let you all know that I did do things on our Mariner cruise besides measure bathrooms. It was Nice to Rome, including Monte Carlo and all those beautiful little Italian villiages by the sea --- and they looked just the way I'd always imagined. We had a few "hitches" like delayed luggage, broken down shuttle bus, and broken down tender, and an excursion bus driver who cancelled with no notice. But Radisson handled the problems so smoothly it was like no problem at all. And we really loved the Mariner as well. The food, service, itinerary, crew staff, entertainment, and fellow guests were excellent. No matter what is done with the bathrooms, we look forward to cruising on her again. The only reason I measured the headroom in the tub/shower was that this board was yet to be born, and I (and many of us) was posting primarily on CC. On that board at that time, there were many "rants" about the Mariner and its "showers for midgets (which insulted the Mariner and little people as well), so I just thought that as I was booked then in the near future, I'd take a tape and find out.

Like Kathy, we did a bathroom remodel -- actually part of an add-on, in 2000. The resulting master bath has 235 sq. ft., an enclosed "potty room", two separate vanities with sinks, a walk in shower with bench designed so no shower door or curtain was required, and a large jetted tub in one corner inset into a marble platform.

What this has to do with cruising and the Mariner's tubs is this. Our builder was very clear that the bottom of the tub be no higher than the floor of the bathroom. He said that stepping into a tub where the tub bottom is higher than the floor was difficult to impossible for anyone with leg or foot problems. (I think he also said something about this violating local building codes.) As an arthritic condition in my feet and one ankle has progressed, I see what he meant!

Chip knows that I'm a technically-oriented guy from the Mercedes Benz Club boards. I had just heard so much about this situation on the CC board then that I wanted to quantify it. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Thanks,
Richard

Richard: You did NOT offend a soul - always good to have a detail person around as I am not close to being one - I was teasing when I asked what you did for relaxation - keep posting informative posts! joanna

No not side by side toilets Marcie. We have one each with a door. I dont want to view Kens "treasures" (and I do mean the items he buys on trips) anymore than I have to.

Of course, Ngaire, that's what I've envisioned in these large master baths. Even most custom built home designers/architects don't think of this. We're on the same wave length!

Ngaire - ROFL! :)

Richard - as a fellow technically oriented person, I appreciate the details ...

Masaki

Ngaire, would that "treasure" you speak of be a ring holder????? <img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[naughty]" title="" src="graemlins/naughty.gif" />

p.s.
Richard, you offend NO ONE!! Any teasing (including mine) is good natured! As Joanna said, many of us just aren't as detail oriented as you!! Perhaps we are just jealous! :)
Keep up the very informative posts!!
Sheri

I personally love the bathrooms on the mariner (I'm a sucker for marble in the bathrooms, extra deep tubs and great water pressure)... BUT if I could wish for one other item, it would be the other sink...only the suites have the double sink.

The few suites on the Mariner that will have the tub taken out will have a bench in them so that people can sit on them...I think that will help the folks who may be nervous standing otherwise...the latest ish of Inspirations has the picture of what the shower will look like as well as the cabins that will have this configuration.

Good water pressure and constant availability of hot water are two features present on all Radisson ships which I feel get too little favorable comment. Radisson's are the only ships I have cruised where there has never been a shortage of hot water and/or pressure at times. And that's a very good thing.

Rather than abolish the tubs, it would seem to be an easier and cheaper solution to simply replace the tubs with ones that are not raised 5" above the bathroom floor (so as to give 6' 7" headroom) and perhaps install wider tubs to accomodate large feet, as Mr. Kimmi suggests.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

Incidentally, I remember reading an article in the Journal about how urinals are now in vogue for home bathroom design. A number of men want fancy urinals in addition to the standard toilet. I guess that's one way to get around having to toilet-train men after the age of 3. I think men (or at least me) are just genetically incapable of working the toilet seat effectively. It's one of those Y-chromosome things. And as my sister likes to remind me, Y-chromosomes are mutated, defective X-chromosomes.

Lawrence,

I solved that problem with my remodel. To flush, you must put the seat and lid down and the one that I bought is called a soft close seat so you barely tap it and it floats down without banging.

Oh Lawrence, Clara is one very bright girl! LOL!